MuskyGreenHorn

All good points so far, I agree. Another reason to use shorter leaders for casting is when you have a follow and a fish doesn't bite. This is common in musky fishing, but I have sen the odd large pike do it. A shorter leader 12-18" facilitates figures eights or O's. Or you forgo the swivel if you are using most lures (with the exception of an inline spinner) and tye the flouro leader directly to your mainline.

Lipdip and harrison, i couldn't agree more with everything you said except for 2 minor things. Some guys still swear by shorter rods, especially for jerkbaits and WTD topwater and the wire/flouro debate has some merrit. Harrison I saw guiding a couple of guys last summer on LOTW and we same something similar happen. I had them casting a shoreline in a small bay. It was a calm, lazy type of afternoon and the bite had slowed down big time from the morning. I was half asleep as i was enjoying the sun and working the 9.9 kicker by popping in and out of gear to slowly cruise the shoreline. the guys asked me if i knew foresure that there were musky in this bay. Shortly after that I happened to glance over my shoulder and a mid forties was wollowing the prop of the kicker, liek a foot away. I turned to the guys and calmly said "yeap, check this out." It followed for another 15-20 feet untill I took the motor out of gear and it swam under the boat and then looped around and swam back out from the back. It was memerized by the fourstoke just chugging along at idle is my only guess. We casted the hell out of the area and it didn't show itself again. Pretty cool though.

I agree, floro leader material is different that floro mainline. that being said it all depends what pound test your going to run. I use seager fluro as a mainline on my walleye gigging gear, but run braid with a floro leader on my bass spinning gear. I aslo use flouro as a mainline on my spinning gear that i use to target trout in streams. Where the flouro leader material really comes into its own is when you use the heavier stuff. I run a 25lb flouro leader on my bass casting gear and use 30lb braid as my mainline. I up that to 40 or 50 mainline and a 30lb leader for flipping gear. Finally my Musky gear. this is what I fish for primarily now. I use an 80lb braid mainline and a 80-130lb flouro leader depending on the situation. all of this may sound like overkill, but with braid, its all about managebility. Lighter line is much more prone to backlash, wind knots, catching on guides and breaking when really launching heavy lures. And by launching i am talking about 3-10oz lures being cast 200 feet. I have snapped 100lb line doing this. The beauty of braid is that you can increase the strength significantly while still keeping the diameter managable. i always use a leader taht is slightly weaker than my mainline so that is al you will lose on a snag that just won't come off. The except being musky fishing as you always try and get your lures back when they run from $15-$50. If you are going to use flouro as leader but don't need/want anything more the say 20lb, you can probably get away with buying a 300yd spool of mainline type flouro. Anything more than that you may want to consider the leader material. Its definately more abraison resistant and stiffer. The stiffness has an advantage over any other type of material except steel. Stiffer leader have a definate advantage when working certain types of lures, such as topwater or jerkbaits or inline spinners or any other baits that tend to tumble through the air during a cast. Limp lines will foul thse types of baist during the cast (in line sinners and baits that tumple) or during the retrieve (topwater and jerkbaits). If you want to use a flouro mainline type material you will just have to change it a little more often. It should work great for cranks, spinnerbaits, plastics. I use a uni to uni knotto attach the flouro to teh braid, its fast once you get it down and it never fails and works fine to attach lines of different diameters, no matter what anyone else says. Just remember to wet it while tying.

Agreed about CT. Just go to lebarons or another indie store. x-rap xr12 or 14 (salt water model) husky jerks williams wabler mepps susky killer, giant killer, sassy shad, musky maribou spinner baits topwater for summer time, pike love mashing topwater later in the summer, but spiners, spoons and jerkbaits get the nod in the spring. also condiser some plastics for spring pike. i have good luck dragging lizards, leach immitations, slugos early in teh season when the pike are lethargic and don;t have teh energy to chase something down. as pointerd out, get some leaders or you are going to donate all of your new baits, i buy segar flouro leader material and tie my own. Way better than steel leaders. for pike 50lb should do. season isn't open yet, watch the classifiedshere for used baits, and kijiji, craigslist, ebay and whatever else you can think of. If you are on a budget, u can fid good used stuff cheap if you aren't in a rush to get it amd you spend time tracking it down.

I wonder what the expect people to eat after fishing including comercial has benn banned.They are working on stopping us from eating cows and chickens and pigs as well. When i attended university in guelph there was a large portion of ecowarrior type students amount the population. The best part was 99% of them were not science students. I ended many a debate by saying that after i eat all of the domestic animals, wild game and fish, i will look to the vegetarians and vegans next. Grain fed right. That always worked in shutting them up. I agree that farming practices and commercial fishing practices aren't perfect, but the answer isn't just to shut it all down overnight. These people all live pretty much the same way us hunters and anglers do anyway, total bleeding heart bull. We will have to be smart about and pick our battles wisely though. By the way spearing for muskies is currently being lobbied for and going through congress right now for the state of minnesota. That scares me emensly, as activists will lump in all musky fishing with this neaderthal practice. At the same time, it also gives me hope that congress isn't even seriously considering banning recreational angling if they are considering this.

I think a restraining order or whatever it is called that makes it law to keep them away by however many feet. Also some trailcams like everyone is suggesting, set them up with some sort of bait ie something the person can't resist destroying. catch that on camera and you will have tresspassing as well as destruction of property, hell even build a small shack with a lock on it and nail them for breaking and entering. Use this idiots boldness against them.

Do you want fries with that? I'd hate to see the super sized version.

I agree, we are simply just people. The problem is you have to prove intent, and he can say all he was doing was trying to scare them and not hurt them. This is a race issue, he needs hard time, sick person.

Tis true, but we support it by paying taxes and using the roads. Same goes for burning gasoline and oil in our cars, trucks and boats. We are doomed I tells' ya.

Nuff said.

There are some nice nets out there. Frabil makes some nice ones. Musky might look big, mean and tough, but they are wimps, you have to take care of em' if you want them to survive. Come guys even unhook all of their smaller fish that aren't hooked weel right in the water, not net, just unhook and she swims away. I haven't caught enough to get to that oint yet, but I feel i will. Tkae rafs advice, he has given me plenty of pointers, serious musky hunter. Yes Muskies love eating smallies and walleye's right off your line, pike too, greddy buggers.LOL Lew I like those D's, nice paint jobs!

I dunno, its getting out of hand. I think its time to lock it down before someone like myself overrides the Mayor proclaims and themslef the Priminister. ln all due respect a mayor is elected not self apointed. Mr Mayor, I am a local and I am fisheries biologist. You can come over and see my fancy papers hanging on the wall. Poaching happens all over the place regardless of limits, restrictions and seasons, thats why its called POACHING. The members here do not claim to know more about what is best for the lake. Really all we are doing is supporting what the MNR has decided. they are telling us the lake needs a limit, so we simply support their hark work and efforts. We also applaud them for additional seasonal opportunity. If this new opportunity has a negative effect on the ecosystem, I am sure the MNR will adjust accordingly and we will respect that. There are a few bad apples in every bushel. That shouldn't spoil the rest. It seems that a few in the RLTA are doing just that for them though. We don't want anyone losing their lively hood and buisness. But if they don't want to play by the same rules as the rest of the users of the lake than they can take a hike. It appears that you want an open limit and no ice fishing? Why? How can you demonstraight to us that would be good for the lake? Has rice really been pounded that hard this winter... I truely doubt that. These rules are in effect for the entire zone 17. If you guys really feel rice lake needs to be exempt for BIOLOGICAL reasons, i applaud you for voiceing your concern. To all of us here though, it is plain to see that your intersts are centered on the dollar, bottom line, and not the fish. Thats the MNRs job, they aren't out to get you. Signed, The Biologist

clofchik aounds a lot like Cronzy, thats not an insult, just sayin'. He sure rants a lot about this issue. The debate about salmonid names and what not, its all been settled, they are all in the salmon family, three different genera. If you really want to get confused start researching about all the other rainbow trout offshoots in the Rockies and throughout the States. Another time another place. The first thing anyone should note about Lake Ontario is it is not the same lake it was before we came and messed it all up. Thanks to overfishing, habitat degredation and destruction, and the introduction of the sea lamprey via the St. Lawerence Seaway. Then we decided we needed new fishing opportunities and introduced several pacific salmon and the brown trout. The rivers have all been damned, rerouted, polluted and degraded in one way or another. So even if we had the atlantic salmon of yesteryear to reintroduce, would they take? Thats the best part though. We don't have the proper atlantics to reintroduce. The MNR has got pretty good over the years at maching stocked fish with the intended recieving waters. What i mean is that they choose fish that come from similar habitats. Within any species there are populations from different areas/regions that have already diverged in terms of evolution to adapt to their local environment. I think everyone can agree that a lake trout from Great Slave Lake in the NWT is not the same beast as one from Lake Ontario. So why haven't the MNR done a good match with the Atlantics? I don't know, but they are stocking fish from the east coast and not land locked ones like the ones that used to inhabit he Lake. Like others pointed out though, there is a lot of private money involved here. It does appear to be a "feel good" project. It seems as though things were rushed into because money, interest and polical pressure was there. Also the credit river seems to be one of the main rivers chosen. Why? Maybe some of the MNR biologists in that District (Aurora) have a personally vested intrest? The Atlantics will have to compete with centrarchids and esox in the credit on top of the rainbows and nooks. Seriously. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this, but they should also realize that appearances are decieving. The more competetive pacific species aren't goin anywhere anytime soon as the Americans will not stop stocking them any time soon. Money would be better spent improving habitat and managing pacific salmon species, or even lake trout (they survived and are still reproducing). I would love to catch an Atlantic myself. I am also a supporter of the MNR and believe the do not get enough funding and resources to opperate to their full potential. But this project in particular is a political one and not one that is biologically sound. I do not believe this project has the public's best interest in mind, it is simply a PR project for private money that the MNR got involved for the wrong reasons at the wront time. It would be nice for a few individuals to claim responsiblity for the Atlantics making return against all odds wouldn't it? The chance at notoriety may have been too much to pass up... Especially when the money and political backing was easy for the taking... Just playing the devils advocate here. No solid accusasions, I just like to ask tough questions and have rumours dispelled.

hatchet, you are a savge man and you were rewarded accordingly, nice work!

Please do not take a gaf musky fishing. A big sturdy net, mini bolt cutters, long needle nose pliers or hook doctor. Early season usually means smaller baits and slower baits as some have already pointed out. Save the topwaters and larger trolling baits for later in the season 1. 6" slamo skinner 2. XR-12 or 14 Xrap 3. 6" soft bodied swim baits or tubes 4. Smaller Bucktails like mepps musky killer or maribou, showgirls, smallest cowgirls, little darlin' from dadson blade baits 5. Spinnerbaits, even bass sized ones get a lot of attention early in the season.

Its a matter of finess really. Any organism reaches a maximum peak potential to produce gametes. After which its downhill untill senesence. The oldest fish in a population will not be the ones producing the most eggs or the most viable ones. Also a fish that is close to its maximum potential age will probably not be as fit as a younger individuals to compete for mates and spawning grounds/sites. I would compare it cutting down a very old tree in a forest. Selective logging. Cutting down a few older trees releases the resources for younger ones to grow and flourish. Yes its a shame that something that has lived for a very long time it detroyed for our wanst and needs, but as humans, fish and trees are a resource that use. Removing very large and old specimens from a "Healthy" ecosystem will not ruin the said ecosystem. The key word there is healthy. If the poplation is small and in trouble, removing anythng could be detrimental. Think of cathedral grove on Vancouver Island. I fish musky and the size limit is ever increasing on many bodies of water and some do not allow any harvest the same goes for sturgeon. But in systems with a large healthy population, the MNR allows for the harvest of large trophy specimens for the resons I detailed in the first paragraph. Polution, habitat loss and degredation and climate change are the real issues. The freshwater fisheries in Canada are probably some of the best managed in the world, be it fesh water or salt water. the same people who complain about people keeping a trophy probably go out and eat tuna at a sushi place more often then they should. Now there's a fish stock that people should be worried about.

Rick and Ron, I applaude you both. I smelled those rats right from their first posts. The lake is evolving, its time the RLTA did too.

Seriously, when are people ever going to learn that we can't control nature. Respect it. Rick probably knows more than anyone else who has posted on this topic. Take the guys Advice. I see coyotes all the time where I live and here them every other night. they only nail he farmers herds who don't have dogs (big dogs) or a Donkey or Lama. The population is at an all time high, guess what happens next, a crash. I bet we'll hear a bunch of people complaining about too many deer and not enough coyotes to eat them in about 4-5 years. Seriously, if you want to walk rat dogs in the dark or near habitat, use your head, and I love all the stories about the one sthat were off the leash. Right, smart idea. And what is teh deal with cops dealing with this, shoudln't a wildlife person like a CO take care of this, go do some real police work. Take some money out of the police budget to hire more COs already. I saw a young lady carrying a pomeranian while i was looking at musky baits in bass pro a couple of years back. i was so close to asking her where she found the live bait.

its a laker with a deformed tail. Solopladdler hit the nail on the head though, the square tail is the most interesting thing. Other people are also right in saying that captivity wears down tails, epecially if they are kept in concrete tanks/raceways. Glass, fiberglass, plastic or net enclosures also wear fins but not that severe. Teh worst cases are always in older fish, which this guy isn't. I have seen some wierd deformities in caught in sampling nets before, stumpy rainbows, zigzag tail perch, potbelly walleye, mouth deformed muskie. With the snow and ice on the fish my best guess its just a laker with a birth defect.

Count my name Ron. Like some have already said, no one is being blamed for anything really. But some of us are upset that a few resorts (a small minority group) want to change the new regs. the MNR has put these in place for a reason, they don't take random numbers out of the air. The resorts in question want a zero limit policy so they can cater to people (be they Canadian or American) who want to take large amouts of fish home, when the MNR has decided that is detrimental. Seriously 300 sunfish + 50 perch, plus some crappie, add 4 walleye to that and even bass if you really must. I really don't see the need to increase anything. Further I guide in northern Ontario and I cook a shore lunch on every outing for my guests. I practice what I preach and only enough fish if kept to feed a group. Some resorts on LOTW have even started offering cheaper rates to guests who practice catch and release. They can eat some fish everyday, but don't take any home. My guests feel good at the end of the trip that they did their part to help sustain a fishery for furure generations. I encourage my guests to release trophies and the smiles in their photos shows how proud they are that they did. As for cheap locals... I pay taxes here and I have my whole life. I buy gas here, i go out to eat here, i shop at local bait shops, do i need to go on? I respect my home lake and I insist VISITORS do as well.

Are you looking at pics for inspiration or are they 100% imagined? Either way, killer stuff.

I know a guy who is really good at this. In fact he was featured on IN'Fishermen and has been written about in their mag as well for this exact thing. he uses an aquaview camera attached to a downrigger ball. The bait is only like 10 feet behind that. In his vid, he uses a sucker rig as well as a custom made spinnerbait (you can buy the retail version now called the train wreck) and also he uses 10 inch jakes. he said the key to getting these fish to strike is to impart erractic action, by speeding up or turing or bashing the cannon ball and lure through structure. his film is called "Muskies Live" and his Name is DOn Schartz. His company is called Hog Head Lures. Look him or his stuff stuff, he has vids on youtube as well . if you are into this kinda thing, this guy is a master and his DVD breaks this down so anyone can do it, super cool. He is a friend of mine, so naturally I am biased.

All about product and not profit... Right... Sounds like a good business plan... I wonder how long it will be before a little MADE IN CHINA sticker will be on them. Yes it is definately a fad, but it may be one that sticks around. I say its a fad, because it is only available of expensive stuff high end stuff.

Science takes part, not sides. The timing of the new regs with the economical hard times is unfortunate, but the lake has no clue about that. If the MNR feels that the regs need a change, they obviously have good cause. Also, rememeber its the whole zone, not just Rice Lake that these regs apply to. These regs will ensure that fishery is sustainable over the long term. Thats means buisness will be sustainable over the long term. I am all for weeding out greedy buisness's that want to exploit a public resource for their own short term gain. And besides these regs are brand new, most locals don't even know about them yet, nevermind our friends from south of the boarder. How can something they most likely don't even know about stop them from coming, unless the resorts are informing them (which we know the aren't) then how could he vast majority even know about this? And lets say a family of 5 comes for a visit, they can each take 300 home, thats still 1500 fish. I live 10 mins from rice lake and have had plenty of fish frys supplied by rice and bet i haven't taken 1500 from there in my whole life. The association is being short sighted and greedy, shame on them. Anyone who doesn't believe that people don't clean hundreds of panfish in a week I urge you to go to a resort at Rice Lake and see for yourself. Sunfish are just as tasty as perch and crappie and easy to clean. i could whip off 100 myslef in 30-40 mins no problem. And thats with a regular fillet knife and they use big drum style scalers and electric knives.

Thats acrually a good question, the forst one really about this whole new reg deal in zone17. Like cram said, try and talk to someone from the MNR. Let us know what they say.