Steve Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 The local band office down home just finished a environmental study to put up a windmill farm basically across the front of henvey inlet and key harbour ,I think it will just add to the mystic untouched beauty of the French River That is correct. One of the biggest proponents for wind and solar development are the Indian reserves. They truthfully could care less about where they go up...as long as they get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I agree in general, but the situation in the past was so different from what it is now or likely to be in the future that there are limited lessons to be learned. If there is a lesson, it's that decisions should be made based on economics rather than politics but, as I said, I just don't see that happening. I agree that it was partly economic in the past----a stable power supply at cost was a major factor in the industrialization of Ont. OTOH, a large part of the D'ton overrun was due to D Peterson putting the plant on hold after Hydro had purchased major eqpt and was paying the mid-teen interest rates current in the mid-eighties.. Which is not to say there was no mis-management---always lots of that to go around in the past as well as today. If only we could separate the politics from the issue of Hydro LOL. You are quite correct in that a large part of the over runs at Darlington were due to interest rates being high during the project. NO ONE foresaw them, ever going that high. Inflation was rampant, workers demanded more just to fall behind a little less... Wicked times financially. That spike in interests rates is kind of like how no one expected oil to be sub $45.00 a barrel ever again when the contracts were signed for renewables at the high prices they were signed for at. What bites is no matter what happens with bizarre market conditions or governments making bad decisions we KEEP having to pay for the mistakes of judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 That is correct. One of the biggest proponents for wind and solar development are the Indian reserves. They truthfully could care less about where they go up...as long as they get paid. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 do the research. i see it first hand. you're aware of the grand river land tract I'm quite sure. you're aware of all the "stop work" actions the local natives have done on all development within 10km's of each side of the river. well, the native's had no problem giving up 440 hectars (yes hectars) of land for a huge samsung solar development....no actions, no protests, no stop work actions.... why? well, they were given 10% equity in the project. They didn't have to contribute anything, except one site trailer whey a representative from the local band sat and watched tv every day. but that 10% equity worked out to approx $40 million. So give them $40 million and everything goes ahead. If you go to the government website that shows approved sites for future wind and solar development, currently 60% of that approved land is native reserves. Want to know what is even better? No environmental studies are required if developing on native land. That sounds strange right? Want to know why? Because the natives themselves (or the band leaders) use that as incentive for developers to use their land.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 That is correct. One of the biggest proponents for wind and solar development are the Indian reserves. They truthfully could care less about where they go up...as long as they get paid. . Agree 100% and you can cry and squawk and talk about heritage all ya like it's all about the $$$$,,I was told this directly by many from the Rez on both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 do the research. i see it first hand. you're aware of the grand river land tract I'm quite sure. you're aware of all the "stop work" actions the local natives have done on all development within 10km's of each side of the river. well, the native's had no problem giving up 440 hectars (yes hectars) of land for a huge samsung solar development....no actions, no protests, no stop work actions.... why? well, they were given 10% equity in the project. They didn't have to contribute anything, except one site trailer whey a representative from the local band sat and watched tv every day. but that 10% equity worked out to approx $40 million. So give them $40 million and everything goes ahead. If you go to the government website that shows approved sites for future wind and solar development, currently 60% of that approved land is native reserves. Want to know what is even better? No environmental studies are required if developing on native land. That sounds strange right? Want to know why? Because the natives themselves (or the band leaders) use that as incentive for developers to use their land.... ..I've seen it on several occasions ..certain pipeline jobs etc where a group would be there watching over Hawks ,Eagles nests,turtles and snakes holding up production ...man walks in with an envelope ,hand shake and the protestors are gone ..couldn't give a crap less about a eagles nest it was all about getting paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) do the research. i see it first hand. you're aware of the grand river land tract I'm quite sure. you're aware of all the "stop work" actions the local natives have done on all development within 10km's of each side of the river. well, the native's had no problem giving up 440 hectars (yes hectars) of land for a huge samsung solar development....no actions, no protests, no stop work actions.... why? well, they were given 10% equity in the project. They didn't have to contribute anything, except one site trailer whey a representative from the local band sat and watched tv every day. but that 10% equity worked out to approx $40 million. So give them $40 million and everything goes ahead. If you go to the government website that shows approved sites for future wind and solar development, currently 60% of that approved land is native reserves. Want to know what is even better? No environmental studies are required if developing on native land. That sounds strange right? Want to know why? Because the natives themselves (or the band leaders) use that as incentive for developers to use their land.... I just finished building a solar site and it took well over a year for the enviromental studies before the project could go ahead. I seen that first hand as well! Edited October 17, 2015 by manitoubass2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ..I've seen it on several occasions ..certain pipeline jobs etc where a group would be there watching over Hawks ,Eagles nests,turtles and snakes holding up production ...man walks in with an envelope ,hand shake and the protestors are gone ..couldn't give a crap less about a eagles nest it was all about getting paid This too is nonsense. But ill agree with one thing. It is about getting paid! Will you please allow me to drill for oil in your backyard? For free? Silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 And if ya want to complain about it, go read the treaties(there is some studying for you to do!) Your not complaining about the source of the issue. And that is our lovely queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 This too is nonsense. But ill agree with one thing. It is about getting paid! Will you please allow me to drill for oil in your backyard? For free? Silly ...sorry you feel that way but not every nishnabe is on the same page as you or shares your beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Same with the mine im at now, 7 years to get the go ahead. Provides tons of jobs and guess what? The natives working there even pay taxes(GASP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ...sorry you feel that way but not every nishnabe is on the same page as you or shares your beliefs Agreed, just like every european settler is not a colonialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 It's the two reserves shawanaga and the magnetewan that have the 400 on hold ...why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) It's the two reserves shawanaga and the magnetewan that have the 400 on hold ...why ?Im not there and I do not represent them. Im guessing they are bored and the geese havent come in yet? Anyhow continue on about alternative power. Lots to learn Edited October 17, 2015 by manitoubass2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I've worked with lots of natives and have many as friends I grew up around 3 reserves,as soon as something don't go there way or they don't get there way they cry treaty,,treaty..it's time to grow up its the 20 century were not living in mud huts fighting for land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I've worked with lots of natives and have many as friends I grew up around 3 reserves,as soon as something don't go there way or they don't get there way they cry treaty,,treaty..it's time to grow up its the 20 century were not living in mud huts fighting for land Tell that to the jews Tell it to the ukranians Tell it to the syrians Tell it to palestinians Ill refrain from petty insults... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Tell that to the jews Tell it to the ukranians Tell it to the syrians Tell it to palestinians Ill refrain from petty insults... . Deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Any idea what price our government pays for nuclear power? And any idea of the fix guaranteed contract we gave the nuclear power plants to purchase their power, whether we actually purchase it or not? I suggest some folks do some reading, and some learning, so that you become much better informed. Don't know but I have read it's a lot LOWER then Money Mills and that's why you are getting it stuck up where the moon don't shine every time a Money Mill goes up. I believe coal, hydro and nuke power are the cheapest you can get.......... Bend over here comes the mailman with your electric bill.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) do some reading. you might be surprised. we are contracted to purchase a minimum amount of nuclear power, regardless if we actually purchase it. which means, in periods of low power consumption, we are still paying nuclear producers a minimum amount, regardless if we use it....at those periods, the cost per kw is higher than any form of energy currently produced. I also just did some reading on the RRFN solar farm. Like I suspected, they are only providing their land, much like the deal I mentioned down here. Capital is being provided by Conner, Clark and Lunn, as well as Terrma Capital. Further, the reason it took so long to get shovel to ground was initially (in 2008) RRFN planned to put up wind turbines. However, like I already said in this thread, developers don't just put turbines up all over the place without conducting viability studies. In the case of RRFN, their 2.5 year viability study (which included erecting a MET Tower) said it wasn't viable to put up a wind farm on their land. So off it went to the idea of solar. In 2010 they started the solar viability study. However, it was shown that there wasn't enough T&D capacity to allow for a solar farm. In 2013 they submitted a plan that included updating the T&D lines in the area, so that the solar farm could go ahead. February, 2014 construction starts. Completes January 2015 (received COD status). So, no, it wasn't 7 years in development, at least not the solar portion. But this interesting case does prove that no, you don't just raise turbines anywhere...tests are done...and when it is determined the location is not viable, you move on to another solution - in this case solar. Also, it proves that as a developer, Conner Clark Lunn, and Terrma Capital, it is best to partner with a band of natives, as they have the land, and want to sell it. Edited October 17, 2015 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Any idea what price our government pays for nuclear power? And any idea of the fix guaranteed contract we gave the nuclear power plants to purchase their power, whether we actually purchase it or not? I suggest some folks do some reading, and some learning, so that you become much better informed. Is that information actually available without spin from either side? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Have you seen the Money Mills along Lake Erie ? ? ? There are / were plans to erect 165 more IN Lake Erie......not sure what going on with that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 The 7 years I mentioned was for the mine, not the solar farm. I believe RRFN is looking at ecdev in a positive light. Its not just a money grab. They, as a community are trying to create jobs to further infrastructure to the community Its a smart plan if it works out and goes against the grain of many reserves living in poverty. The only way up is infrastructure/education/ecdev etc. But these plans take alot of time to see fruition. Initially yes more people have jobs, in time that means less welfare, more community spending, skilled labourers and tradesman. That leads to developement of housing and commercial goods ie grocery stores etc Im very good friends with chief and counsel(minus a few) and the plan is soliď IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Have you seen the Money Mills along Lake Erie ? ? ? There are / were plans to erect 165 more IN Lake Erie......not sure what going on with that now. Yes, sure have, we are insuring them. There are no plans to develop any turbines in any water bodies. (and rightfully so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 And the solar farm, as Im sure you read, was also held up by a bird. They did alot of work trying to avoid damages to a local birds enviroment. At one point the project was almost cancelled all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Is that information actually available without spin from either side? LOL likely not. it'll be spun one way or another. best is to read from all sides and form your own opinion(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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