governmental meetings today

[aniceguy]

We had the pleasure of meeting with opposition OMNR ctitic today again to discuss OMNR matters.

 

We offered our services in an advisory manner to assist with party election platform matters on how to fix the OMNR.

 

After a long meeting in the PC caucus room at the legislator and with many of the senior party officials and chiefs of staff we were pleased to see that the PC party is gaining a strong grasp of what needs to be repaired within the OMNR and hopefully our suggestions will become part of an election platform and become ministry policy.

 

We found them energized and open to suggestion and that there was a true and warranted care for the natural resources of the Province.

 

Come November a new landscape might appear where the OMNR is brought back to what it was

 

of Note the bill pertaining to species at risk is in its second reading and if you have had the time to read it you will see that no where near enough consultation has occured and that fishing and hunting opportunities can be potentially disected as a result of this bill.

 

We urge you to call or email your local liberal MPP to have this not go past second reading and infact go to the citizens of ontario for public consultation

[Marc Thorpe]

Dont want to bust your bubble

Keep dreaming,they aint gonna fix it

 

Unless you have a tax grab to offer

 

I hate to tell ya,The Gov only purpose is to grab as much off of its citizens as they can and do little

Dont kid yourself waste and non decision occur at all levels and departements

 

If they really have intentions of correcting our financial situation and envirometal situation

1)They would decrease their salaries (mp's)

2)They would trim gov employees by 30-50% and number of MP's

3) They would have citizen watch dogs to ensure good accountibility for all departements

4) They would get more hands on work done and accomnplished,less office work

5) Stop sending money for Foreign aid

6) Stop subsidizing cheap labor across seas

 

Just remember .50$ on 1$ for tax goes towards salaries

 

Dude dont get snowballed by some politician no matter what party they belong to

Looks like they listen to your plight for votes

Politicians are like asian carp,they are invasive in our lives

 

I applaud your efforts,good luck

[aniceguy]

Ohh I remember Harris disecting the OMNR and those were the days we had a direct line into snobolen's office too. Having meet Tory a few times now, this guy is different...he is specific in not commiting to anything unless he can carry through. But hey Im a big boy and dont like follow the leader so lets see. In the interim if I have the ear of the future minister, policy directors and the future premier and I can post policy directives to them that make sense and get both parties to make some commitments come election time we are on the right path.

 

 

1 liscence for the province @ 30$ with the govt matching the increase dollar for dollar, an immediate injection of 40 million, co's working under the provincial parks model where they are self sustaining via fines a special task force aimed at developers who break the law ( million dollars a day for chemical spills so the potentiality of this can be huge), with all fines going to special purpose accounts an economic stimulus aimed at the great lakes charter boat business and stimulus aimed at the economic value of fishing based resorts a tag system where you can donate 5 or 10 when you buy the liscence and the money going directly to CWFIP operations decisions based on science and public consultations rather then fly by the seat.

 

Some of the concepts floating around the war room these days.

 

the goal is a leaner meaner MNR that has additional revenue streams to support its self without having any tax grabs or user fees without support and thats the key to it all.

 

No question there is a startified layer of managment at the OMNR and other governmental agencies.

[Bob]

In my estimation, the vast majority of politicians, regardless of party, are specific in not committing to anything unless there's a hinge attached. Makes it easier to flip-flop the issue. (Apologies to anyone who is really committed to their party but that's how I see it.) Most politicians reside in the pockets of big corporations so I doubt you'll see legislation that will hurt these companies who have bought and paid for their pols.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Bob

[kennyman]

A great big thanks "aniceguy" and everyone for representing us to the best of their ability and for actually giving a crap. To Marc Thorpe. I truly respect your fishing ability, but that's not going to stop me from voicing my opinion when you're in on a conversation (I'm sure it does with some people). You're not exactly a "glass is half full kind of guy",are you? Thank goodness for people like "aniceguy" who are trying to keep on top of the politicians and turn the MNR around. Other areas of Canada seem to be doing a fine job and there is ne reason why Ontario can't be among the best. He seems to have really done his homework and should be commended for it not shot down. Actually, I understand your frustrations. We all feel them Marc. BUT, if someone like yourself put his efforts into speaking up about what needs to be done in the MNR instead of just shooting down the government as a whole,someone might listen. You are famous in this community and you could really get people listening and making a difference (especially in your area of expertise). I guess I don't know you but you must be a committed guy to get to where you have in your career and abilities, so how about posting some solutions to the problems you want to see addressed in the industry. You have some weight here Marc,that many others here do not. Put that weight in the right spot and maybe you can tip the scales in our favour.

[bigfish1965]

It seems that parties are interested in what we have to say when in opposition, but famously unavailable once they reach power.

It is important to make this an election issue. It certainly comes down to money and resources. Who has the political will to increase MNR funding by the 50 or so million dollars it needs since this clearly means a drop of the same amount in either education or healthcare? At this point that is a tough sell.

We need to increase user fees in order to maintain the natural resources. This means fees for anglers, hunters, guides, charters and resorts. Won't be popular. But since the aforementioned use the resource at some type of measurable level, there is likely no easier way.

Now I know guides will scream, but a $25 per trip fee isn't going to break anyone nor is a $50 per week fee for resorts.

Increase the license fees and increase fines for violators.

[grt1]

I too have had an opportunity to speak 1 on 1 to John Tory and I was pleasantly surprised by his candor and honesty in regards that the conservatives mistakes that were made when they were in power. I don't know if that would change if they form the next government but I hope not (by the way I usually vote for the person in my riding that I think will be the best for the job and the last couple of times that has been a liberal).

 

What we need to get changes done is to have more power given to the ministers for the north, not only the MNR but Northern Development and Mines (which has been gutted) . Only when these ministries get some decent financing to run their departments will we see some benefits.

 

Last year I had a game warden tell me they had $75 a day to work with, that would put gas in their vehicles and boats. If they used up the money on a plane trip to an outlying lake for a spot check they essentially used their budget for the month and were relegated to the office until they had more money credits. this is total crap for them to do their jobs properly.

[Marc Thorpe]

Kennyman,I always look at my glass as half full

I enjoy everyone opinion or perspective on all matters no matter what my perspective is

 

What Aniceguy did is good,I mearly pointed out what the political party he approached did

He did approach the opposition which is not in power,great move no questions,take it with a grain of salt

Rick O understood what my message was,he explained it correctly

 

Ken,the prob financially stems from the top of the ladder all the way down for all departements

Till you see what I have posted reached among all goverment levels and departments,Dude minute accomplishements will be reached because the monies that could be used to fully succeed are derived into nothing studies,nothing inquiries and so on

Ken face it,50% of all tax earnings in every provinve and Canada is wasted

You think a PM deserves 250 000$ in salary,I dont think so

They are civile servants living off our means (something wrong with that equasion) and earning more than the average ?

Just so you know,they work less hours per year than most of us and when they do more they are well compensated

 

Does this not mean we should halt our efforts,no just be aware of expect

Dont be fooled with all you read in the media

 

I think you have taken my post wrong,seems others understood my message

Yes I dont believe in the goverment,why its created a whirlwind of waste and un-accountability and un-retributional towards its wrong doings

I've been witness to it in many aspect of govermental runned departements

I understand and plight with some of the lacking in our natural resource but the heart of the prob comes from within the Gov

 

The solutions suggested are good,but once again

Co self financed by violation fines will lead to funds being derived towards other departments or quotas being instilled (you think thats a joke/dude its reality)

I do agree fishing licenses should increase,I have no probs supporting this

Fishing licenses and the use of these funds is under funded

 

What do you really think I can do,not much

Become Prime Minister,the entire political and govermental structure must be changed and become integral

 

Not in my lifetime

 

Rick could not have said it any better

I do agree with his suggestion,first better clean up goverment because they will squander it

 

Ken I am speaking up about the true matter of the problem

I think you failed to see it

 

Ken,I just earn a living and pay child support from this way of life,nothing else

I share my experience withh all simply because I am common and simplistic as all just as others share their livelyhood or life experiences and knowledge

 

Ken,in reality our finacial and goverment structure cannot last in this worldwind of waste,unfortunatly we as servants should halt all hand over till finacial accountability is attained.

 

Fact is provincialy (every province exept Alta) and Nationaly the income received is by far more than enough to bring things to stability and accomplishements,the wasting and employee cut backs should be acted upon

 

There are more office workers than field workers at any of the Provinces natural resource departement

 

A prime example of waste

Truck plates in quebec are 450$

225$ for general road fees

225$ anti pollution

 

So if I get this straight, my 225$ Anti pollution tax has gone into Provincial air purifiers so they we can breath clean air from my polluting truck with my 225$

My ars!

 

Lake Simcoe has in re-introduction phase since 1996,we are now 2007

Do you know how much money has been allocated?

Do the results equat to the return in investements ? NO

 

Just so you,I sat in a meeting which almost could have set a precedents to selling off one of our natural reproducing fisheries for no other reason than to subsidize budgetary constraints.

There was no scientific or natural resource reason to do so

I voiced my and others opposition to it and received flack from the natural recorces folks

What did I learn from that meeting,disapointement in the reasons some decisions are taken

Most of all the wearness of the true information placed forth

I called a spade a spade,some did not like it,To bad

 

Carefull at creating or generating more govermental funds

I dont think politicians are honest people and I dont think they have our best interest at heart or in responsibility

More so their own personal finacial future

 

Yes ,we should keep trying,I dont think handed over more Un-Contralable and Un-accountable monies is the solution

 

Actually Ken its an all around good conversation

 

Ken,I am short crotched and 180 pounds,slim and trim thats all the weight I got

 

Remember this in life,never look up to others,look at them

 

If your ever felt like to look up to someone,there not worth looking at

Edited April 6, 2007 by marc thorpe

[Marc Thorpe]

I suspect if we privatized our natural resource with regional volunter watch dogs and administrators and financial equality upon all regions within their needs and contribution

We would be far better than govermentally runned

 

Simply run it like we are expected to run our households and business

Biologist could go out and do what they studied and love to do,work in the field and progress instead of worrying about what their budgetary defencies

Edited April 6, 2007 by marc thorpe

[kennyman]

Wow,that was quite the response Marc. Are you sure your glass is half full? First of all I agree with the fact that alot of politicians seem a little overpaid and crooked. I do think part of it is that after serving six months they're already working on getting re-elected. I think maybe all elected politicians should be only one term,then all they'd worry about is getting the job done for four years. As far as them being overpaid that's questionable. Alot of them take pay cuts to go into office, Do you really think these people were janitors before?I do however disagree with voting themselves a substantial raise as well as alot of the unbelievably wasteful things. Some are completely taking advantage of their positions of trust. The same thing happens in everyday situations as well. Factories are closing or in trouble all over because of the protections unions afford to their employees. Foremans are powerless over their employees and the employees know it. I know I'll take flack over that comment so let me explain. A relative of mine is a productive worker and so gets moved all over the factory to different positions where they need to "make up production" He is not well liked because of it. When he goes into an area he outproduces the regulars in the department by a HUGE amount. I remember him telling me about a particular day where he was put into an area (machining) where four employees regularly produce (machine) approx. fifteen pieces each per day. The management assigned my relative because they were behind in production and needed the help in there to make quotas because these guys just were't cutting it. .They needed production of almost double that,but consistently were falling short. They knew this group were "blanking the dog" but had almost given up,because like many areas these guys go at their own pace. Off and on during the day they can't even be found. Anyway,my relative goes in there and made more than ninety pieces in a day. That was almost double what the group of four had produced altogether! This was one example of the MANY things that were regularly taking place as the bosses became more and more powerless over their employees. Guess what's happening now. The place is going bankrupt and my relative is losing his job of over twenty years and because of the bankruptcy no severance.His life is going to be turned upside-down ....... why?? ........ and this is finally my point ............. the people (lots of them) were taking advantage of their situation .............. much like politicians in the same situation do. I'm not saying it's right,just common. I also know that just throwing money at somthing won't fix it,but in this instance they seem so undermanned and underfunded, it's not a bad place to start. I honestly have never seen an MNR official except once and I was on Lake Erie that time . Nowhere else .... and I was out quite a bit. Isn't that like only seeing one cop car all year? It can't be a good sign. They need more people to give them the ability to enforce the laws that are already in place as a start and work there way into policy changes.Also emergency funds should be available for emergency situations (like the upcoming Asian carp situation). More money,more money,more money .... what do you do? Like you said,they're going to take it anyway,so at least they can use it for something productive,right? Anyway,gotta go to bed,I'm falling asleep sitting here. I'll ring in again tomorrow.

Edited April 7, 2007 by kennyman

[Guest Trophymuskie]

Stupid question but isn't talking with the opposition like speaking to a deaf ear? we all know they are going to say whatever it takes to get your vote in the next election. But only when speaking to the political party in office can change ever be accomplished. And my opinion is that no PC party will ever do anything for the outdoors, it doesn't fit in their agenda that is all for the rich snobs.

 

Rick I see nothing wrong with user fees if I am going to see results but why $25 a day for guides and only $50 a week for resorts? Shouldn't it be the other way around? I'm sure resort are raking in a lot more then us mere guides.

 

I'd like to say kudos to all those that try, sitting on the sidelines criticizing is never going to accomplish anything.

[topraider]

Talking to the opposition is very important, it gets you an "in" when the price is cheap. And trophy muskie, it is a mistake to categorize PC's as rich snobs. Out here, west of Ottawa, in the riding of Renfrew, they vote in the PC's with huge majorities. Yet they are not rich, quite poor as a matter of fact. In Toronto's rich neighborhoods, most vote liberal and send their kids to private school.

[Guest Trophymuskie]

Talking to the opposition is very important, it gets you an "in" when the price is cheap. And trophy muskie, it is a mistake to categorize PC's as rich snobs. Out here, west of Ottawa, in the riding of Renfrew, they vote in the PC's with huge majorities. Yet they are not rich, quite poor as a matter of fact. In Toronto's rich neighborhoods, most vote liberal and send their kids to private school.

 

I know no one should stereo type politicians. Crap even the majority of idiots here ) Prescott-Russell ) voted in the PC guy last election after who knows how many years of been Liberal. Just because the liberal guy retired ( Boudria ) and they just blindly picked a name on the ballot. Worse thing is the guy has a French name but doesn't even speak or write it, it's insulting to see the mistake in his literature.

 

All I know is the PC ( I mean Conservatives or is it alliance or whatever they were in the last 10 years ) were responsible for free trade, the cutting of our schools, hospitals and the last budget had nothing in it for us middle class folks but another tax ( gas guzzler tax ) on us poor self employed slobs.

 

All I know right now we need to change how we do politics, it's just not working. We are taxed to death and we get nothing for it. Everything from Health, Environment, Schooling, Policing, Roads ect etc is getting worse and not better fast. It's not just the OMNR. Man we are going out there and voting for the least worse instead of the best, that's sad.

 

All I know if things are going to change for the OMNR we need to be pounding on the existing government's door.

 

Personally I think license fees should be doubled as well as all fines and all funds should be filtered back into the fisheries. I think a user fees system would be better then taxing everyone for things like OMNR or the Arts as a matter of fact.

Edited April 7, 2007 by Trophymuskie