How long is your steelhead rod and what material is it made of?

[Guest Fishing For Life]

Hi guys,

 

just get curious when we are on the rod topic ..

 

How long is your steelhead rod and what material is it made of?

what is the difference between IM-6, IM-8 & IM-9 and

are they specifically good for different length of rods?

 

Thanks!

[MJL]

For graphite, higher modulus graphite blanks are generally lighter in weight and more responsive. IMO the action of a rod is determined more by the taper of the blank than the materials used. I actually don't pay much attention to "IM" ratings much anymore when I purchase rods and go by the overall feel of the blank.

 

I own steelhead rods from 8'6" to 13'6" made up of various types of graphites.

[Casey123]

Michelle and I have 3 rods,

 

I use a 12'6 Fenwick, Michelle uses a 11 foot Cavalier blank, someone made for her, nice rod, cheap blank but still has very good action. We also have a 9'6 Diawa for smalller streams and back up for when we are further from home.

 

Like the action on the Diawa the best. I agree with MJL, the rod feeling is more important then the IM rating of the graphite (I believe length of strands). I am sure there is a corolation however for us it is more about rod feeling/balance and action.

[Guest Fishing For Life]

Well, i am a bookworm jerk .. so I am always looking for facts and scientific ways

to explain things I see.

 

jurgons like IM-6, IM-8 or whatever PSI rating on materials bother me alot

when shopping around and unforturnately, I have not been able to find

anything references to compare them with (graphs or something)

 

i would assuming IM-9 is lighter and stiffer than IM-6 is. Hence, the IM-9 is

preferred for longer rods to avoid "tip sagging" and to have less weight.

However, those are just assumptions or "manufacturer claims" rather than

actual scientific evidence. I would like to see something like "elongation", "ultimate

tensile strength" graphs instead. what about the PSI ratings? PSI is a stress unit ..

how is it related to the rod response and how it bends?

 

I know, I know, I ask too many questions which most people might not care ..

but what can I do .. I am a bookworm ..

[Casey123]

Dude, You owe me....Now stop with the questions, go by yourself a damn rod and catch a fish! LOL

 

What Is Modulus/IM and Ton Rating?

 

 

Modulus is the term referring to the elasticity of the graphite. It is the relationship between stress (the applied force per square inch) and strain (the amount of deformation that the force causes per square inch). You can think of modulus as stiffness. The IM and/or Ton rating refers to the overall modulus of the material. At All Star Rods, we use a unique blend of high tensile strength AGC (Aerospace Grade Carbon) fibers which give our rods a super strong backbone with sensitivity second to none. You will also notice the light weight that allows for effortless casting and all day fishing comfort.

 

Rating Chart

IM-6 Graphite = 30+ Ton Material (Standard Modulus)

IM-7 Graphite = 35+ Ton Material (Intermediate Modulus)

IM-8 Graphite = 40+ Ton Material (Intermediate/High Modulus)

IM-10 Graphite = 54+ Ton Material (High Modulus)

[MuddyWater]

i use a 9 foot HMG fenwick fly rod blank made into a spinning rod. super light and really fun to use and my reel is a old mitchell garcia 308. dont care to much for those center pins but ive never used one. if i was gona i would just use my fly rod.

[Sinker]

I have a 13' Loomis IM-6. Its about 12 years old, but its also the only rod I've never broken........gotta mean something?

 

I never use it anymore, I should sell or trade it.

 

Sinker

[Guest Fishing For Life]

I knew it, someone knoeledgeable like 4reel will

eventually ask my questions, hahah

 

thanks for the detailed information, really appreciated.

 

Can I assume that high raing mateirlas are only used for long rods since

you will not notice the advantages on shorter rods?

[kemper]

Well my rod is quite long...longer than most you might say.

 

Im also talented with it.

 

 

 

 

 

GET YOU MINDS OUT OF THE GUTTER! THERE IS KIDS HERE!

 

 

No, but really. Its 13 and a half feet. And I hook alot of beauties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this post is very innapropriate.

[Casey123]

I knew it, someone knoeledgeable like 4reel will

eventually ask my questions, hahah

 

thanks for the detailed information, really appreciated.

 

Can I assume that high raing mateirlas are only used for long rods since

you will not notice the advantages on shorter rods?

 

Dude,

 

You really need to get out and fish. I have seen lots of 6'6" IM7 Rods. So no, I think this has merit to it, but it is just as much about marketing for the rod blank companies.

 

They charge more for the higher IM ratings. As much as I would like to claim to be all knowing, I just cut and pasted this from All Star Rod blanks info page.

[MJL]

Well, i am a bookworm jerk .. so I am always looking for facts and scientific ways

to explain things I see.

 

jurgons like IM-6, IM-8 or whatever PSI rating on materials bother me alot

when shopping around and unforturnately, I have not been able to find

anything references to compare them with (graphs or something)

 

i would assuming IM-9 is lighter and stiffer than IM-6 is. Hence, the IM-9 is

preferred for longer rods to avoid "tip sagging" and to have less weight.

However, those are just assumptions or "manufacturer claims" rather than

actual scientific evidence. I would like to see something like "elongation", "ultimate

tensile strength" graphs instead. what about the PSI ratings? PSI is a stress unit ..

how is it related to the rod response and how it bends?

 

I know, I know, I ask too many questions which most people might not care ..

but what can I do .. I am a bookworm ..

 

 

Tip sag can be reduced on any blank regardless of the material used. Winston, Sage and Loomis Canada line their guides based on the straightest axis rather than the spine (often the spine effect is on the straightest axis but not always). They look for natural curves in the blank when they line up the pieces and have the curve in the tip section point upwards...They then put guides on the opposite side to counteract this curve and reduce tip sag which would have otherwise occurred if they put guides on the opposite side of the blank.

 

Here's a link from Winston rods. Go to company films and take the "Winston tour" to see how they line up their guides.

http://www.winstonrods.com/winston_channel.html

 

You can also play around with guide sizes and materials - use lighter titanium framed guides over stainless steel. Use smaller match guides over standard frame, etc. I imagine the difference would be minimal but theoretically there would be a difference. Some fly guys I know switch their snake guides to single footed guides to reduce swing weight on the blank.

 

For the ultimate in "performance", beyond manipulating the amount of resin bonding the graphite fibers, you can change the scrim materials used for reinforcement in the blank. Even though blanks are stated to be 100% graphite, most manufacturers use small amounts of fibreglass as a scrim material for additional strength . Loomis GLX and Sage (G5 technology) are the only companies I can think of off hand which use graphite as both a blank material and scrim material - The trade off to ultra light and ultra responsive is the brittle nature of ultra high modulus graphite.

 

There are numerous factors at play which affect the action and performance of the rod beyond purely the type of graphite used.

 

It's an interesting topic for sure. I used to build fly rods from scrap blanks of different manufacturers in the hopes of finding the perfect distance fly casting machine and did a lot of my own testing with different tapers and materials.

[kemper]

On a more serious note... I have two MAIN rods that I use for steelheading. An 11'6 IM6 Fenwick that is very light, very fast and easy to get a solid hookset with. It is my favourite rod BY FAR that I own but it is somewhat lacking in power when it comes to big steel. If I am heading out on a day when I know the big boys are in, I know a fresh run is in or the water is high with lots of current I bring my 13'6 for the extra power.

[Guest Fishing For Life]

WOW, MJL, no wonder you know so much about this topic

since you used to build rods .. wow, very interesting insights

 

I started salmon fishing last year and noticed my 11'0 noodle rod made of IM-6 bents too easily

when there is a big one (15+ lb). It went to a point that the rod was almost bent 150 degrees

and still did not have enough power to bring it in. The spinning reel I was using was at maximum

and still could not stop it ... so, it took me forever to land it.

 

This year, with the 13'6 IM-9 and centerpin reel, i found it is eaiser to

bring in 15+ lb rainbow to shore than my previous equipment.

It did not matter how hard the fish fiught, the most bending only occured at the top 1/3 portion of the rod in which

i believe brings more backbone power. Therefore,

I started questioning the differene between rods (the only difference between centerpin and spinning

is just the full non-skip stop)

[MJL]

WOW, MJL, no wonder you know so much about this topic

since you used to build rods .. wow, very interesting insights

 

I started salmon fishing last year and noticed my 11'0 noodle rod made of IM-6 bents too easily

when there is a big one (15+ lb). It went to a point that the rod was almost bent 150 degrees

and still did not have enough power to bring it in. The spinning reel I was using was at maximum

and still could not stop it ... so, it took me forever to land it.

 

This year, with the 13'6 IM-9 and centerpin reel, i found it is eaiser to

bring in 15+ lb rainbow to shore than my previous equipment.

It did not matter how hard the fish fiught, the most bending only occured at the top 1/3 portion of the rod in which

i believe brings more backbone power. Therefore,

I started questioning the differene between rods (the only difference between centerpin and spinning

is just the full non-skip stop)

 

A noodle rod designed to handle 2-6lb line (I'm assuming) will handle very differently to a float rod designed to handle 4-10lb line regardless of the material used. I have an older 13'6" Raven IM9 in my arsenal and it is easily one of the heaviest actioned factory float rods on the market - Beefier than a Loomis IMX which has a higher modulus rating (It's all in the taper and design). You can make a further comparison of Taper VS materials for backbone/power by looking at our great lakes float rods with high modulus graphite (IM9, IMX, GLX) and compare that with what anglers traditionally use for steelhead on the west coast (Sage 3113mb - 11'3" (8-17lb) - GraphiteII - probably equivalent to IM6 graphite). My friends were telling me, the Raven IM9 stood no chance to fresh run steel on the Sol Duc, Hoh or Skeena rivers they fished.

[Guest Fishing For Life]

MJL, are you saying that traditional rods made of softer material (eg, IM-6) but with stiffer(faster) taper action

outperforms new rods made of stiffer material (eg, IM-9) with softer (slower) taper action?

 

if so, then the taper action is more important than the material used!

 

let aside the personal preference, what rod action is considered as good for steelhead?

i would imagine there are gaphs showing how a 13'6 rod should bend under whatever streees

and also for rods at different length. Based on those curves, then rod companies have to figure out

what to do to make rods made of new materials would bend the way they are supposed to

 

oh man, we are really get into details now! i am pumped!

[MJL]

"outperform" is such a subjective word based on what we individually perceive as being "best"

 

It depends what you're looking for in a rod.

- Fishing for long periods of time? A lighter weight rod will let you do it (high modulus graphite)

- Need back bone? A properly designed rod taper will allow you to haul in fish

- Need a quick responsive tip? high modulus graphite will minimize tip bounce and improve tip flex recovery

- Need an indestructible rod? Go fibreglass or grab an ugly stick

 

As anglers we want a rod to do more than one thing listed above - Simply put it's value for the $ and that's why rod manufacturers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in research and development.

 

A 13'6" rod should bend however the manufacturer designed it to be...There are no set rules and no industry standards.

 

The basic trend today is lighter, faster, more responsive float rods with backbone. Fluorocarbon has allowed us to move away from the classic noodle actioned rods like the old House of Hardy and Lews float rods (where dropping down to 2lb mono leaders was normal) to ultra fast tapered spey-float conversions that are getting more popular nowadays (my friend built a float rod based on a Euro-tapered spey blank - He uses 10lb fluoro leaders with 15lb main lines for his big water trib fishing).

 

I'm used to the older progressive actions that bend down to the handle or midway through the blank using 8lb mainlines, 4-6lb leaders yet hold good amounts of reserve power in the butt section. To me the newer spey conversions don't feel right - at least for the waters I fish.

[Guest Fishing For Life]

Hi MJL,

 

now that you mentioned how florocarbon allows us to move away from using 2lb-mono with noodle rod

and to use 6lb-florocarbon with stiffer rods. Does it mean that noodle rods which are desgined to absorb

shocks are going out of the trend because florocarbon is stronger than mono?

 

If so, why do people still buy noodle rods? (I was TOLD to get a noodle rod for salmon fishing)

Is it because most people dont know what they are buying or is it just personal preference?

I have seen too often that people set hook so hard to compensate for the slower reaction of noodle rods

and sometimes when it missed ... BANG on trees!

 

Here comes another question ... what classifies a rod as "noodle rod"?

(I was told to look for something very soft, haha) I would assume rods which are designed to

handle 2~4lb mono lines?

 

Moreover, do manufactors provide detailed rod information such as "weight"? I mean, i can tell expensive

rods are lighter and easier to balance with reels, but I would like to know how much less weight am I getting

by paying certain amount of $$ to justify the decision.

[MJL]

No clue if noodle rod sales are on the decline. They're still popular in the states where centrepinning hasn't caught on yet. I use mine for bottom bouncing small creeks where a 13'+ rod would just be too big...Even 10'6" is a little on the long side for some areas I fish. TBH, other than line rating differences and the fact that you can bend most noodle rods right down through the handle into a perfect C or an O, I never really found a difference. You can float fish with them if you want.

 

When I'm salmon fishing, I leave the noodle rods at home and bring out my meat stick (10' Shimano covergence 8-17lb) and either put a spinning reel on it for the pier or a centrepin on for the trib. I'll also use my 8wt fly rods or my Raven IM9. Most of the time, I'm using 8-12lb fluoro leads for the chinnies and the way you can haul them in in record time is pretty cool...No need to run a fish up and down a stream for half an hour or fight them to exhaustion.

[Ben_Daniels]

My steelhead rod was an 11ft Silstar IM-7...after a run in with the car door its now about 8ft. lol. I've since retired from steelheading and the rod works great for dragging tubes or fishing with leeches for smallmouth

 

-Ben

Edited April 15, 2008 by Ben_Daniels