Dutch01

I'm curious why you think it has to be us in the trenches? Why not Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt, etc. These countries have 4.5M troops in theatre already. It's their backyard, why not them? are you so eager to see Canadians in harm's way? edited because that comment was uncalled for. And spare me that baloney about they won't help us later. If anyone ever invades Canada, the U.S. isn't going to say "hey Canada, remember that time you guys wouldn't come to Syria?". That's just a fantasy.

Our bombs have killed more innocents than all the terrorist attacks combined, probably by a factor of thousands. We've been bombing for years now. If bombing works, how did Paris happen? If one dead Canadian is one too many, how do you think they feel in Syria, having lost over 210,000 lives since the conflict began? How can a person lack empathy to the point of saying 210,000 isn't enough, let's kill them all? It's horrific and inhuman. If we don't learn to accept our own complicity in the problem, how can we ever begin to address it? PS mr blizzard, didn't mean to imply you personally were advocating "kill em all", I have heard it said too many times over the last few days.....

I don't necessarily have all the answers, but I do know that if we keep bombing them from afar, they'll make sure they bring it here to us. When I look at that video of Syria, I am appalled at what we have wrought.

Art, I absolutely support our soldiers 100%, and I am very much aware that my freedom came at their sacrifice. I also have been clear about the role I believe they should play, which is not "hoping peace will overcome". Finally I believe when I say "Hey, wait a minute... Why do Canadian men and women have to be the ones to die when there are 4.5M troops already over there and doing nothing" I AM supporting our troops. Our men and women are not supposed to waste their lives so defense contractors can sell more munitions. Before the tin foil hat accusations come out, the President of the United States himself warned the American public in a State of the Union address that this would happen. That the Office of the President itself would become beholden to the military industrial complex. I am not making this up. How quickly we forget. PS: Art, my abrupt tone is not directed at you, it's time to "punch out" and go home so I'm trying to type quick!

I have been pretty clear about the type of support I think we should offer our allies and I don't think it qualifies as putting my head in the sand. If you lived in Syria right now, and all "the West" was offering is more bombs, and IS offers you food for your kids, what would you choose? Even those that flee, and are lucky enough to 1) not get caught/killed by IS and 2) not drown trying to get to Europe will end up in a place were everyone looks at them sideways, and they'll never feel welcome. Look at the jerks who attacked a woman wearing a hijab in the TTC today. I guarantee you they repeat the line about how "Muslims treat their women like crap" to their racist friends. Yet somehow they cannot detect their own hypocrisy in that they just attacked a woman themselves.

I posted above about how a man who lost his wife in the attacks in Paris has responded. I don't know that I would be able to have his strength and courage but I hope so, because he's right. Islamic State's goal is to increase hatred and violence. They want more Islamaphobia because they will believe it will drive moderates to their cause. We are taking the bait. Watch the Syrian flyover video I posted if you haven't already. In 2009 there were 1.7M people living in that city. Look at it now. How popular do you think we are with those that remain alive? If doing that to them was a solution, then Paris would not have occurred (we've been bombing them for years and they still pulled off Paris).

You guys are gonna make a dude blush!

It's better than this: http://youtu.be/M0ELAa02TUY Sorry, I'm on mobile, don't know how to embed it.

This takes a huge heart, I'm not sure I could be as big a man as he were I in his shoes. I'm also very much an atheist, but I respect this man for walking the walk. His God would be proud of him. Anton Leiris's wife was killed at the Bataclan on Friday. He posted a letter to the terrorists online: "Friday night, you took an exceptional life - the love of my life, the mother of my son - but you will not have my hatred. I don't know who you are and I don't want to know, you are dead souls. If this God, for whom you kill blindly, made us in his image, every bullet in the body of my wife would have been one more wound in his heart. So, no, I will not grant you the gift of my hatred. You're asking for it, but responding to hatred with anger is falling victim to the same ignorance that has made you what you are. You want me to be scared, to view my countrymen with mistrust, to sacrifice my liberty for my security. You lost. I saw her this morning. Finally, after nights and days of waiting. She was just as beautiful as when she left on Friday night, just as beautiful as when I fell hopelessly in love over 12 years ago. Of course I am devastated by this pain, I give you this little victory, but the pain will be short-lived. I know that she will be with us every day and that we will find ourselves again in this paradise of free love to which you have no access. We are just two, my son and me, but we are stronger than all the armies in the world. I don't have any more time to devote to you, I have to join Melvil who is waking up from his nap. He is barely 17-months-old. He will eat his meals as usual, and then we are going to play as usual, and for his whole life this little boy will threaten you by being happy and free. Because no, you will not have his hatred either." I was very moved by this and thought I would share it with you all.

Thanks dude. I expected a bit of a hard time on this one (which may still be on it's way!). I get very passionate about this subject because I worry about the world my Son will inherit. Luckily he has a great and very multicultural group of friends and is colorblind as a result. As a result of said passion, I sometimes stray close to the line of being rude, which is not my intention and which I find repugnant. I have to dial it back and remind myself you guys are my friends and countrymen, and I can't change minds that I have already alienated.

Thanks Cliff. Your middle paragraph is on point. Who gets the money when those bombs are bought? The American military industrial complex. The same guys that are quietly lobbying Congress for more bombing. People are emotional, myself included, but we have to stop with the knee jerk responses that we are being led into, and really look at who wants this war the most. I despise everything IS represents, but we have to be smart enough to look past the obvious and find a lasting solution to the problem. I submit that as long as bombs rain on people they will never accept peace. They may not accept peace either way, but we can't occupy the moral high ground when our body count of innocents is much higher than 129. As to your last point, I always stand by a friend. But when a friend is being an idiot, I don't stand by him by being one too. I tell him to smarten up (or sober up) and I make sure he gets home in one piece.

Our ally "Turkey" is buying their oil, and is bombing the guys fighting IS (the Kurds). That ought to tell you something right there....

If you think you can bomb an idea into submission, you can apply that pejorative to yourself as well. You cannot defeat ISIS without boots on the ground and body bags coming home. It should be regional armies' boots and bodies, not ours. I'm fine with providing training and logistical support to those willing to take up the fight, but we shouldn't be doing the heavy lifting. Also, the West are hypocrites. Boko Haram has a much, much higher body count than Islamic State, but those are brown bodies, not white ones, so no war on Boko Haram.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you unable to grasp the concept of nuance? Did you read the article I referred to or does it not fit your pre-established narrative? How about an answer to my semi-rhetorical question about whether more bombs equal more peace? In short, I'm trying to determine if you have more to offer to this discussion than pithy sarcasm.

As an aside, we often talk about how lucky we are to live in a country like Canada. Well, it truly is luck. Any one of us could have been born in Syria, and if so, we would have to ask ourselves (if we weren't already dead), what lengths will I go to to feed my children? Look at your children when you go home tonight and think about that. Then think about what lengths these people will go to if you bomb their children.

Honest answer: you cannot win this war by bombs. Ever, period. First, the UN and Geneva convention would never allow carpet bombing civilians. Second, if we did that, we'd be worse terrorists than IS anyways. Does anyone think that if only the Palestinians had more bombs, peace would follow? How about the reverse - if Israel rains bombs in the Gaza Strip, do you think Hamas will throw up their hands and say "okay Israel, you win"? No chance. Every time we drop a bomb we create more enemies. There was a link to a great article earlier in this thread about why people join IS. I'm guessing most won't read it. Most of these guys didn't like Saddam, but under him they had a way more prosperous and peaceful life than under "us". The average IS soldier is 27 years old, married with two kids, and while they are Muslim, they do not subscribe to the extreme idealism that IS leadership does. The fact is, a job fighting for IS is the only way they can feed their kids because the U.S. left their country in ruins. The U.S. created this situation in a mad rush to bomb someone (anyone). They had no plan for after the bombs fell, and are now reaping what they have sown. In fact, the U.S. funded IS when they were under other names because they had a hard on for Assad. Assad is a bad guy, don't get me wrong, but the U.S. is still bumbling around making the middle East worse. Who do they think is going to fill the power vacuum if they topple Assad? Reality check, there are approximately 30,000 IS troops. There are 1.5M regular and 3M reserve troops in the region (in the armies of "allies" such as Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc). None of them have fighting IS on their priority list. I think we should be asking our "allies" why that is, and tell them to clean up their own back yard. I do not believe our troops should be in a combat role there, but we can train and support those that will do the heavy lifting. At any rate, I am pleased that we are no longer bombing because every orphan or widow we create ends up joining IS to fight the "terrorists" that destroyed their homes and killed their family. I believe we have to dial back on our own hatred. If we decide that the answer to this problem is to "turn the Middle East into a sheet of glass", then we lose our humanity and become the monsters we claim to hate.

Time to start up the gas auger and start drilling a new hole 3" from the one he's fishing!

He's sending in trainers because unless we teach people how to stand up for themselves, we will always have to stand up for them. Seems like common sense to me......

No one in particular.... wait were you talking to me or the "other" Dutch?? I'm confused ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The 9.1L I recorded over 100km was mostly downhill (not a joke), at 90kp/h on cruise control, at 3am with no traffic all the way home from the lake. Not exactly real world conditions, but it is possible.

Spend $25.00 on a LeBaron membership and you get 10% off regular price. I got $175 off of my Terrova that way.

My best 100km in my 2015 Silverado (5.3 V8) was 9.1 l/100km. Lifetime average over 18,000 km's is 15.4....I'm kinda heavy on the throttle though. :\

I blame Justin. He's only been PM for a few days and then this? Highly suspicious!

Also for $25 you can get a LeBaron membership and save 10% for a year. I did this when I bought my Terrova and saved +/- $175 right off the top.

I just picked Daiwa Revros for $50 at Le Baron. It feels like a reel that cost twice as much. I haven't used my Abu's that DID cost twice as much since I got it. It's below your budget but worth a look.