VHS and a lock down of the great lakes

[aniceguy]

Our club was scheduled to start rainbow trout transfers Saturday and we recieved notice that effective now all great lakes excluding superior are in lock down mode for the short term, ( 7 to 10 days) while the ONMR devises a policy on VHS. This means no egg collection transfers or fish ladders being opened, those that are open yr round are being looked at for immediate closure.

 

For those that were interested in helping us with lifts please come to the site for future updates www.craa.on.ca

 

Hopefully this wont last long and policy is developed or an entire yr class could be lost in systems dependant on stocking and fish transfers

[outdoorguy61]

This information is appreciated. It has begun to be be passed on to other groups that have been affected in Eastern Ontario.

 

I believe there could be a few ways of handling this and still enabling community groups to operate. Hopefully MNR is up to the task and does not allow this to further deminish club efforts.

 

* I am not a fan of how MNR conducts most business....and yes.... it should be run like a business ....in my opinion.

 

outdoorguy61

[aniceguy]

remember this goes far beyond rainbow trout if ti continues for a while longer the entire walleye, musky, bass salmon etc stocking programs are done finished gone

[tonyb]

Why do they care about egg collection and fish lifts in a body of water that is known to already be contaminated with VHS?

 

It's not like they can get rid of it now...

 

Tony

[bigfish1965]

I think the lifts are suspended pending a review to see if lifting may introduce VHS to uninfected areas via cross watershed flooding.

[tonyb]

So then, I assume the Credit River watershed extends North into the buffer zone?

(Pretty interesting stuff anyway)

 

Tony

[aniceguy]

not a cross watershed issue. there are watersheds where migratory fish have unfettered access. This is just another example of how the upper managment of the OMNR are messing with fisheries

[outdoorguy61]

It already has hit begun to hit walleye and will no doubt affect other species reared or hatched by community hatcherys. I am too far away to be of much use with work, but I still pay taxes......this is not good. I have spoke to a few fellows and will be speaking to more. In affected waterways.... this makes no sence. MNR is using this to sink to a new policy and leadership low.

 

If you are reading this, and care about your community hatcherys or stocking in general.....you should be concerned.

 

I am not happy about this and look forward to when I am closer.

outdoorguy61

Edited March 23, 2007 by outdoorguy61

[dwc67]

don't worry with the trout and salmon gone there will be more forage for atlantics

[chilli]

I heard that there is now proof that VHS has been here since 98.

Fish will start to die off at 4'C.

They've already said it only effects the outer membranes of the eggs and the regular disinfecting proceedures are all it takes. Why then are they stopping egg collection?

Seems like another knee jerk reaction by the MNR with no science to back it. It's all ready been found in Huron in American waters and the only reason they haven't found it in Simcoe and Nip is because they haven't tested there yet.

Talked to a bait dealer on the upper Niagara. He said that out of the (something like 10) bait dealers in the area, he's the only one who filed a protest to the harvest ban. If he had not done that it wouldn't be going to a hearing next week.

Take it seriously Boys and clean your bilge and don't transfer bait or dump it in bodies of water from where it came. That's our part. Lets show the MNR that we've got more common sense than they do.

Who knows, maybe it will catch on to them.

 

Dan

[bigfish1965]

But I think if they did nothing, and it turns out doing nothing made things worse...wouldn't we all be here screaming they should have locked it down till they figured it out?

Decisions like this are never made by random policy arrangements. Getting something like this done takes monumental effort. Look how long we've been waiting for the Feds to approve the new regs.

[aniceguy]

I spent the day on the phone for the most part between the ministers office, and the upper managment of the mnr talking this thing through for the life of me i still cant grasp around why this was done at this point in time. VHS was detected in 2003 and no rainbow trout have tested positive for it, nor has there been any testing as such in the tributaries. The strain is unique to the great lakes and is 1 of the 4 strains of the virus.

 

Eggs can be disinfected and as such there is no reason to stop gamete collection at all. As for transfers lots of systems have had the trout ( which at this point are only suceptible to the virus) so one can assume that some of these watersheds could already be infected, again which ones when and where no one knows.

 

As I conveyed today...if it continues past the 5th or so of April the 2007 yr class is gone and if it continues to openers with the majority of the runs sitting below the first barrier on a river expolitation rates can potentially be in the 70% plus range so a yr class gone and potentially 70% of the this yrs run of all yr classes in serious trouble.

 

Yes I agree VHS has the potentiality to be serious but no one can answer the question that it is, and what in effect it will do. So personally its a series of senior mnr staff dictating policy. By the way when I spoke with my contact in the ministers office they were'nt even aware of this, and its his decision.

 

 

I look at it this way someone somewhere in the OMNR is playing politics, this announcment came on the cusp of the budget coincidence I think not

[outdoorguy61]

To: aniceguy

 

I am not a biologist and have little faith into any that have a weak leadership (that means management to any MNR staff reading this), nor practical resource background. Yes it does sound like a few games are being played. I have been through them a few times. It sounds like you are calm.... this a good thing and has its time and place.

 

As far as taking what may be regarded as eggs from contaminated waters and putting anything back into exactly the same waters, we have nothing to lose. VHS will run its course.

 

Failing to allow community hatcherys to function is an all too common ploy by management and policy makers within MNR. They are so far behind they think they are ahead.

 

I would encourage you to access any and all partys to give your group or any other possible group access to eggs. I would also encourage you to ensure that any MPP's involved know the groundwork, in that the eggs are from existing waters of concern and going back into the same waters. My understanding is that the Credit R group and the Rouge group both use waters from their rivers. I would personally consider going public if need be, given the incredible ineptitude of MNR.

 

I wish you well and hope that you keep us posted. I work far away and have been very involed and am still involved, in a different capacity at the present time.

 

I actually wish we had an ombudsman of some description as the powers that be cannot be held accountable, let alone seem to have a very different agenda other than the tax payers they are supposed to serve.

 

And yes..... I still pay taxes in Ontario....I just work far away at the present time.

 

PS I note you are looking for a Navionics MMC chip. These will be harder to find, but can be special ordered from a Navionics dealer.

 

outdoorguy61

Edited March 24, 2007 by outdoorguy61

[bigfish1965]

Do we know for sure that the request for the restrictions DID NOT come from the biologists themselves? Seems we're jumping to conclusions.

[aniceguy]

Do we know for sure that the request for the restrictions DID NOT come from the biologists themselves? Seems we're jumping to conclusions.

 

 

Yes outside of peterboro there was minimal if any consultation with staff on this.

[outdoorguy61]

I am aware that some of the walleye groups are being jacked around.

 

I have also been told of at least one group being given the message that they would be trout getting eggs from Sault Ste. Marie, as opposed to Normandale. I was puzzled by that....is Normandale not online at the present time?

 

I wonder if the eggs collected for commenercial interests are affected. My hat is off to any native community hatchery interests that will likley not have to put up with any sillyness.

 

outdoorguy61

[aniceguy]

All rainbow trout production was moved to the sault that was a shock to me yesterday also.

[jjcanoe]

sorry double post

 

jjcanoe

Edited March 25, 2007 by jjcanoe

[jjcanoe]

Eggs can be disinfected and as such there is no reason to stop gamete collection at all.

 

What they might be trying to accomplish with this point is: Guy works at a hatchery and goes out for a few casts in the morning before work, catches an infected walleye of pike (remember the symtoms are not always visible) heads to (MNR or club) hatchery and handles fish or uses the same set of waders/boots/gloves/jacket covered with some VHS infected fish slime, and inadvertantly transfers the virus to the hatchery fish or a different watershed while out collecting eggs. (yeah I know it's a stretch but it could happen)

 

All rainbow trout production was moved to the sault that was a shock to me yesterday also.

 

All Rainbow and brow trout that were formerly at Normandale are now at the S.S.Marie hatchery. Normandale will be strictly for raiseing Atlantics as of last fall. Our club got our brown eggs early last winter from there and the hatch rate was amazing! Rainbow eggs are coming soon.

Our colllection permit expires at the end of March and we were out on Thursday collecting. We got about 20 'bows from about 300m of stream ranging from 3-14lbs all the males were ready to rock but the females were different. The large ones were still green (except for one) and the small ones were all spent. We ended up with only about 2000 eggs so the rest we'll be getting from S.S.Marie (if the MNR lets us!

 

jjcanoe

[aniceguy]

jj did your biologist not tell you to not collect gametes this yr.

[Handlebarz]

this is all apart of the same things as the minnow ban I had brought up. It starts in one place and will not stop until we make our voice heard.

 

 

Why is it that most of the info we have to go on comes from the USA our MNR is not doing enough and that is not there fault they have been cut to very dangerious extent.

 

It seems that people did not care much a couple years ago when Gobies and drum died off or the big muskie dieoff of the St Lawerence then LSC. I do know that all the Sh!$ will hit the fan if we have a huge pickeral or pearch die off then we will get the support from the GOV.

[the captain]

GUYS

HAVE A LOOK AT WWW.SPOONPULLERS.COM

THERE IS ALOT OF INTEREST ON THE STOCKING OF FISH AND VHS

AS A MATTER OF FACT IT IS FORBIDDEN AS OF LAST WEEK.

WE ALL BETTER START LOOKING INTO THIS MESS.AND GET ON THE PHONE AND COMPLAIN.

[outdoorguy61]

This needs to go "public". For those in MNR reading this, it usually sends shivers up their spines. Sadly I am too far away to do much with work, otherwise I would likley do the job myself.

 

outdoorguy61

[jjcanoe]

jj did your biologist not tell you to not collect gametes this yr.

 

We didn't get word of this until after we were done collecting for the day and got home to check E-mails. Were were then told not to worry about it but hold off any future collections until furthur notice. We don't have any plans to stock our brown trout quite yet but will do so when hatchery and donor stream temps are about equal. (as long as we are given the OK to do so) The rainbows won't be going anywhere for a while yet so they hopefully won't be affected.

 

jjcanoe

[aniceguy]

sad to hear.