WWI battle spot found

[kickingfrog]

A story about some modern technology helping pinpoint a battle from World War I.

 

Also mentioned is a website for historical maps.

 

The link below takes you the Globe and Mails site and will show you some maps.

 

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1247577/

 

 

SUSAN KRASHINSKY

 

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Last updated on Tuesday, Aug. 11, 2009 04:23AM EDT

 

 

As hundreds of troops lay dying on a ridge in Flanders almost a century ago, the last thing many of them saw was a quixotic windmill, slowly disintegrating in flames.

 

For decades, the British regiment whose soldiers fought in that battle on the Messines Ridge, nine kilometres south of Ypres, didn't know where that landmark had stood. They had little to go on: a date, a village name and a painting. Now, archivists at a Canadian university have helped them unravel a 95-year-old mystery.

 

"It's been a talking point in the regiment for years," said Pipe Major John Spoore from his home in London, England. He has been a member of the London Scottish Regiment for 23 years. "Somebody mentioned that McMaster University had trench maps. That's why I came to them."

 

 

 

 

Mr. Spoore found the university's website Peace and War in the 20th Century. The Hamilton school scanned almost 500 maps and 600 aerial photos from the First World War.

 

The site, pw20c.mcmaster.ca, is free and searchable. It's a way of making history accessible, said map specialist Gord Beck, instead of locking documents in a rare-archives room where they must be handled with special gloves.

 

Mr. Spoore's request was so specific that he needed expert help. So in early June, he got in touch with Mr. Beck.

 

He had some leads: the date of the battle (Halloween, 1914); the village where the regiment set off (Wytschaete); the forest nearby (L'Enfer, which means "hell" in French); and a painting by Richard Caton-Woodville depicting the grim scene.

 

Mr. Beck searched university archives for descriptions of the battle, and triangulated the location on his maps. After much searching, he happened upon it: a square topped with a tiny X, the sole indicator that a windmill once stood there.

 

Though the battle and its location are well known, such a specific search can be tough. "At the time every other small village would have a mill," Mr. Beck said. "The old windmills you picture when you think of Don Quixote."

 

McMaster's digitized maps made Mr. Beck's job easier. Instead of hunching over a desk with a magnifying glass, he used the high-resolution scans to zoom in, pan around and find the X-marked spot.

 

Mr. Spoore, who will be 73 in two weeks, said he is glad the puzzle is solved. "I've been within a few yards of where it was, but we've never really been able to pinpoint it exactly. We can now."

 

The London Scottish - the sister regiment of the Toronto Scottish - lost its last living veteran of the Messines Ridge battle about 10 years ago, Mr. Spoore said. But the painting still hangs on the wall at its London headquarters, and they mark the anniversary faithfully. "We still celebrate a Halloween dinner every year," he said. "Not with witches or anything. A regimental dinner."

 

It's an important part of history, and not just for the London Scottish. A young Austrian corporal named Adolf Hitler was there, too, fighting on the opposing side, Mr. Spoore said.

 

Thanks to a Canadian effort, the debate around the table this Halloween will be a little quieter. "Hoping that you can assist in putting this old grey head at ease!" Mr. Spoore wrote in his June e-mail to Mr. Beck. That's exactly what happened, he said yesterday.

 

A SOLDIER'S SONG

 

John Spoore wrote a song about the battle in 1984 to mark the 70th anniversary of his regiment's offensive.

 

The Burning Mill at Messines

 

Nineteen fourteen, on Hallowe'en, the day dawned dark and still,

 

As seven hundred kilted soldiers, advanced on Wytschaete Hill.

 

They were not battle-hardened men; some were of tender years.

 

They were The London Scottish Volunteers.

 

When the battle raged hand to hand, it was a bloody scene,

 

As they fought that day to hold the ridge, by the village of Messines.

 

Their rifles jammed and they seemed damned but they fought with iron will,

 

By the fiery glow of a shell struck burning mill.

 

They'd left their homes and ones they loved, not many days before,

 

To fight the invading army, on a not too distant shore

 

Where the Belgian people were our friends and remain so even still.

 

They remember yet that battle on Wytschaete Hill.

 

At muster call at closing light, the men were filled with dread

 

At so many comrades wounded and so many lying dead.

 

They had no hero soldier's grave, indeed they never will,

 

Their headstone - just the ghost of the burned out mill.

 

Nineteen fourteen, on Hallowe'en the night grew dark and chill,

 

So many kilted soldiers lying dead on Wytschaete Hill.

 

They'd been not battle-hardened men; some were of tender years.

 

God Bless those London Scottish Volunteers.

 

John Spoore

[Muskieman]

Very interesting...Thanks Man!

 

pw20c.mcmaster.ca

[musky_man]

Great story -- thanks for posting.

 

 

 

 

A story about some modern technology helping pinpoint a battle from World War I.

 

Also mentioned is a website for historical maps.

 

The link below takes you the Globe and Mails site and will show you some maps.

 

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1247577/

 

 

SUSAN KRASHINSKY

 

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Last updated on Tuesday, Aug. 11, 2009 04:23AM EDT

 

 

As hundreds of troops lay dying on a ridge in Flanders almost a century ago, the last thing many of them saw was a quixotic windmill, slowly disintegrating in flames.

 

For decades, the British regiment whose soldiers fought in that battle on the Messines Ridge, nine kilometres south of Ypres, didn't know where that landmark had stood. They had little to go on: a date, a village name and a painting. Now, archivists at a Canadian university have helped them unravel a 95-year-old mystery.

 

"It's been a talking point in the regiment for years," said Pipe Major John Spoore from his home in London, England. He has been a member of the London Scottish Regiment for 23 years. "Somebody mentioned that McMaster University had trench maps. That's why I came to them."

 

 

 

 

Mr. Spoore found the university's website Peace and War in the 20th Century. The Hamilton school scanned almost 500 maps and 600 aerial photos from the First World War.

 

The site, pw20c.mcmaster.ca, is free and searchable. It's a way of making history accessible, said map specialist Gord Beck, instead of locking documents in a rare-archives room where they must be handled with special gloves.

 

Mr. Spoore's request was so specific that he needed expert help. So in early June, he got in touch with Mr. Beck.

 

He had some leads: the date of the battle (Halloween, 1914); the village where the regiment set off (Wytschaete); the forest nearby (L'Enfer, which means "hell" in French); and a painting by Richard Caton-Woodville depicting the grim scene.

 

Mr. Beck searched university archives for descriptions of the battle, and triangulated the location on his maps. After much searching, he happened upon it: a square topped with a tiny X, the sole indicator that a windmill once stood there.

 

Though the battle and its location are well known, such a specific search can be tough. "At the time every other small village would have a mill," Mr. Beck said. "The old windmills you picture when you think of Don Quixote."

 

McMaster's digitized maps made Mr. Beck's job easier. Instead of hunching over a desk with a magnifying glass, he used the high-resolution scans to zoom in, pan around and find the X-marked spot.

 

Mr. Spoore, who will be 73 in two weeks, said he is glad the puzzle is solved. "I've been within a few yards of where it was, but we've never really been able to pinpoint it exactly. We can now."

 

The London Scottish - the sister regiment of the Toronto Scottish - lost its last living veteran of the Messines Ridge battle about 10 years ago, Mr. Spoore said. But the painting still hangs on the wall at its London headquarters, and they mark the anniversary faithfully. "We still celebrate a Halloween dinner every year," he said. "Not with witches or anything. A regimental dinner."

 

It's an important part of history, and not just for the London Scottish. A young Austrian corporal named Adolf Hitler was there, too, fighting on the opposing side, Mr. Spoore said.

 

Thanks to a Canadian effort, the debate around the table this Halloween will be a little quieter. "Hoping that you can assist in putting this old grey head at ease!" Mr. Spoore wrote in his June e-mail to Mr. Beck. That's exactly what happened, he said yesterday.

 

A SOLDIER'S SONG

 

John Spoore wrote a song about the battle in 1984 to mark the 70th anniversary of his regiment's offensive.

 

The Burning Mill at Messines

 

Nineteen fourteen, on Hallowe'en, the day dawned dark and still,

 

As seven hundred kilted soldiers, advanced on Wytschaete Hill.

 

They were not battle-hardened men; some were of tender years.

 

They were The London Scottish Volunteers.

 

When the battle raged hand to hand, it was a bloody scene,

 

As they fought that day to hold the ridge, by the village of Messines.

 

Their rifles jammed and they seemed damned but they fought with iron will,

 

By the fiery glow of a shell struck burning mill.

 

They'd left their homes and ones they loved, not many days before,

 

To fight the invading army, on a not too distant shore

 

Where the Belgian people were our friends and remain so even still.

 

They remember yet that battle on Wytschaete Hill.

 

At muster call at closing light, the men were filled with dread

 

At so many comrades wounded and so many lying dead.

 

They had no hero soldier's grave, indeed they never will,

 

Their headstone - just the ghost of the burned out mill.

 

Nineteen fourteen, on Hallowe'en the night grew dark and chill,

 

So many kilted soldiers lying dead on Wytschaete Hill.

 

They'd been not battle-hardened men; some were of tender years.

 

God Bless those London Scottish Volunteers.

 

John Spoore

[LeXXington]

cool and sad..

 

WWI how things would have been different if they had only killed hitler

[Jonny]

Thanks for a great historical link!

 

Not the same regiment, but I thought you might find this interesting...

[chinookhunter]

great link