Article and a pretty cool video from the star on the Credit river

[fish_finder]

I thought Id put my two cents worth in. Brown trout -Rainbow trout who cares they are both invasive species. The might have recreational and ecomomic value and thats fine. But and I mean a big but ANYWHERE where there are native brook trout they need to be protected from both species. To bad if you like to fish steelhead they are not native and I feel the same with brown trout. Now if there is a niche in the biosystem that is not being filled no problem and more power for introducung new fisheries but you dont do it at the expence of native species. Lots of people love fishing for carp should we start alowing them access to great bass/walleye water. Yes Carp=Steelhead.

 

Sadly, I'd have to agree with ya M or S. One stream that I fish....I keep a rainbow smolt or two for dinner whenever I'm out and let all the specks swim. Its a stream that I've fished for nearly 30 years. Not long ago, a barrier failed and hasn't been repaired. The last 6 years have been nothing but friggin rainbow smolt. Sure, I enjoy fishing for steelhead, but under no circumstances do I enjoy fishing for them at the expense of native species.

[john from craa]

I hope you are not being a "bully" because your group happens to be "lucky' enough to get funding under the percieved pretense that you do stream rehab...etc for the good of all fish species and are now admitting that you have a "special interest" only in steelhead...? I find your CRAA group a bit deceptive in that their "mandate" differs from their actual workings...can you post CRAA's mandate for all to see?

 

Raising a lot of money for stream rehab is not luck - it is a heck of a lot of work. Most of the CRAA executive volunteer 10-20 hours every week of the year on projects and hundreds of other volunteers give up many evenings and weekends. No luck - just hard work. Perhaps you will volunteer for a few 'workings' to plant trees or complete some stream rehah so you can see first hand what our projects are all about.

 

CRAA has a tree planting with other partners on May 3 on Caledon Creek. (it happens to be a brook trout creek too). Details on our website.

 

And your correct - CRAA does have a special interest in steelhead! We also have a special interest in browns, brookies, Atlantics, chinooks, coho, dace, chub, sucker, sturgeon, American eel, walleye, bass, pike, deer, beaver, coyote, salamanders, ducks, geese, etc, etc, etc.

 

CRAA's workings are to improve the whole watershed, top to bottom and everything between regardless of gamefish or cyprinide. Perhaps you should come out to a few work days this summer and find out for yourself.

 

Scugog Boy requested to see CRAA's mandate - pasted below. Here is the link as well. Posted since 1998 (needs a little updating with the reg changes brought forth). http://www.craa.on.ca/mandate.shtml

 

CRAA's Mandate :

To protect, restore and enjoy our rivers

 

CRAA's Goals and Objectives.

 

CRAA is a watershed group, so we work on the entire watershed and all species within. Our main focus is on sport fish, (trout, Atlantic and Pacific salmon and bass), but our work benefits everyone and everything in the valley from birds to animals to other valley users through carefully planned conservation work. CRAA's foremost objectives are a pristine river, with stable flows, reduced silt and flooding, a healthy valley with dense forest cover and improved groundwater.

 

Spawning Steehead at Norval

 

CRAA is very active in supporting and enhancing native species including brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) and Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) by protecting and rehabilitating existing populations (brook trout and redside dace) and stocking (Atlantic salmon). CRAA is a strong advocate of the non-native, but now wild and self-sustaining resident brown trout (Salmo trutta) population, both in the Forks of the Credit above Inglewood and in the middle section of Bronte Creek, above Lowville. CRAA also strongly supports non-native, but now wild migratory steelhead (Onchorhynchus mykiss) and brown trout access to a barrier in Inglewood, in order to greatly increase wild, self-sustaining migratory fisheries. Segregatition of the resident trout fishery in the Forks of the Credit is practised, to allay concerns of over-harvest in this delicate resident fishery. Furthermore, CRAA supports the MNR's stocked Pacific salmon fishery in the lake and lower river as it creates a unique and popular fishery.

 

Protecting resident trout populations and migratory spawning habitat from damage caused by threats such as urban sprawl, water taking, deforestation, chemical spills, etc are of the highest priority. CRAA diligently works with all levels of government agencies to assist in enforcement and lobby agencies for improving habitat protection. Enhancement and improvement of these unique fisheries is done through massive reforestation, stream rehabilitation, public education and conservation practices.

 

CRAA is actively working to increase areas open to the public to improve angling opportunities, while reducing angler impacts and threats, such as over-harvest, on the fish population. In the near future CRAA hopes to see the lower Credit River open all year from Loyalist Creek to Eglinton Avenue for migratory trout and salmon, with a one fish limit and a minimum 30" size restriction on all salmon and trout. This will increase the open section by 60% while significantly reducing harvest of salmon and protecting very important maiden spawning wild steelhead and brown trout. The proposed regulations will ensure all returning adult trout will spawn at least once, ensuring they pass on their unique genetic makeup to future generations. These regulations will further improve fishing by increasing repeat spawning levels, which will lead to more and larger fish, with a much greater genetic diversity. CRAA is also working to open lower Bronte Creek from Rebecca Street to Dundas Street with the same regulations. These regulations are backed by scientific studies from the Great Lakes and highlight the importance of protecting maiden spawning fish, to preserve and increase genetic diversity and maximize the wild, self sustaining populations.

[Musky or Specks]

Raising a lot of money for stream rehab is not luck - it is a heck of a lot of work. Most of the CRAA executive volunteer 10-20 hours every week of the year on projects and hundreds of other volunteers give up many evenings and weekends. No luck - just hard work. Perhaps you will volunteer for a few 'workings' to plant trees or complete some stream rehah so you can see first hand what our projects are all about.

 

CRAA has a tree planting with other partners on May 3 on Caledon Creek. (it happens to be a brook trout creek too). Details on our website.

 

And your correct - CRAA does have a special interest in steelhead! We also have a special interest in browns, brookies, Atlantics, chinooks, coho, dace, chub, sucker, sturgeon, American eel, walleye, bass, pike, deer, beaver, coyote, salamanders, ducks, geese, etc, etc, etc.

 

CRAA's workings are to improve the whole watershed, top to bottom and everything between regardless of gamefish or cyprinide. Perhaps you should come out to a few work days this summer and find out for yourself.

 

Scugog Boy requested to see CRAA's mandate - pasted below. Here is the link as well. Posted since 1998 (needs a little updating with the reg changes brought forth). http://www.craa.on.ca/mandate.shtml

 

CRAA's Mandate :

To protect, restore and enjoy our rivers

 

CRAA's Goals and Objectives.

 

CRAA is a watershed group, so we work on the entire watershed and all species within. Our main focus is on sport fish, (trout, Atlantic and Pacific salmon and bass), but our work benefits everyone and everything in the valley from birds to animals to other valley users through carefully planned conservation work. CRAA's foremost objectives are a pristine river, with stable flows, reduced silt and flooding, a healthy valley with dense forest cover and improved groundwater.

 

Spawning Steehead at Norval

 

CRAA is very active in supporting and enhancing native species including brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) and Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) by protecting and rehabilitating existing populations (brook trout and redside dace) and stocking (Atlantic salmon). CRAA is a strong advocate of the non-native, but now wild and self-sustaining resident brown trout (Salmo trutta) population, both in the Forks of the Credit above Inglewood and in the middle section of Bronte Creek, above Lowville. CRAA also strongly supports non-native, but now wild migratory steelhead (Onchorhynchus mykiss) and brown trout access to a barrier in Inglewood, in order to greatly increase wild, self-sustaining migratory fisheries. Segregatition of the resident trout fishery in the Forks of the Credit is practised, to allay concerns of over-harvest in this delicate resident fishery. Furthermore, CRAA supports the MNR's stocked Pacific salmon fishery in the lake and lower river as it creates a unique and popular fishery.

 

Protecting resident trout populations and migratory spawning habitat from damage caused by threats such as urban sprawl, water taking, deforestation, chemical spills, etc are of the highest priority. CRAA diligently works with all levels of government agencies to assist in enforcement and lobby agencies for improving habitat protection. Enhancement and improvement of these unique fisheries is done through massive reforestation, stream rehabilitation, public education and conservation practices.

 

CRAA is actively working to increase areas open to the public to improve angling opportunities, while reducing angler impacts and threats, such as over-harvest, on the fish population. In the near future CRAA hopes to see the lower Credit River open all year from Loyalist Creek to Eglinton Avenue for migratory trout and salmon, with a one fish limit and a minimum 30" size restriction on all salmon and trout. This will increase the open section by 60% while significantly reducing harvest of salmon and protecting very important maiden spawning wild steelhead and brown trout. The proposed regulations will ensure all returning adult trout will spawn at least once, ensuring they pass on their unique genetic makeup to future generations. These regulations will further improve fishing by increasing repeat spawning levels, which will lead to more and larger fish, with a much greater genetic diversity. CRAA is also working to open lower Bronte Creek from Rebecca Street to Dundas Street with the same regulations. These regulations are backed by scientific studies from the Great Lakes and highlight the importance of protecting maiden spawning fish, to preserve and increase genetic diversity and maximize the wild, self sustaining populations.

But I see you dont mention the damage caused by invasive species? Like steelhead,brown trout, pacific salmon. Im all happy your protecting the enviroment but as an organization its a laugh to think the your into actually protecting native trout populations. Give me one project youve done to protect brook trout? Your only interested in water were brook trout and steelhead water overlap to the detriment of the brookies.Im all for steelhead in water where there is no native populations but otherwise their access to nursery and spawning habitat needs to be stopped.

[aniceguy]

No offense but thanks for the chuckle there…..

 

 

CRAA has done more work on the Credit to protect native fish populations than any other group, these are well known and proven facts, Brown Trout Rainbow Trout and I’m personally hoping very soon its confirmed Chinook are naturalized species so they also finally get some protection.

 

I just love the invasive analogy thanks again for the chuckle. So Brook Trout work,you have asked for a specific example well so here is a recent one so here you go.

CRAA worked for well over a decade to remove a specific online pond on Rogers Creek, prior to this by pass channel temp loggers had it temped in the 28 degree range but yet above the pond when temp loggers were inserted brook trout were visible, finally after the right partners were in place the bypass channel and Rogers creek to the confluence have demonstrated that brook trout now utilize this new water, migratory fish are nowhere near and there is no overlap what so ever it will be roughly a 150,000 project once it’s all done and its habitat that has a direct and immediately measurable improvement on Brook Trout habitat.

 

I can list about a dozen or more things the group has done to specifically enhance or protect waters that Brook Trout utilize yet Migratory animals will NEVER have access to you asked for 1 if you want more references on it let me know, suffice to say the club is now looming on 4 million spent in the watershed and well over ½ of that is was and will continue to be spent on improving habitat that directly impacts Brook Trout. The group believes in whole watershed remediation in that work done upstream has an impact downstream right down to the very water quality coming out of the Credit and into your taps at home

 

As to migratory fish having access to habitat where Brook Trout exist, as per the managment plan the farthest up you would ever see a migratory would be Inglewood, with the reach to be still determined by a class EA, it wold be a far stretch to say Brook Trout exist below there these days, Natives come first thats a personal and club belief

 

On a side note before the speculation inuendo's and internet postings about the groups work or more at the very least check the facts before posting false facts please

Edited April 26, 2009 by aniceguy

[Musky or Specks]

No offense but thanks for the chuckle there…..

 

 

CRAA has done more work on the Credit to protect native fish populations than any other group, these are well known and proven facts, Brown Trout Rainbow Trout and I’m personally hoping very soon its confirmed Chinook are naturalized species so they also finally get some protection.

 

I just love the invasive analogy thanks again for the chuckle. So Brook Trout work,you have asked for a specific example well so here is a recent one so here you go.

CRAA worked for well over a decade to remove a specific online pond on Rogers Creek, prior to this by pass channel temp loggers had it temped in the 28 degree range but yet above the pond when temp loggers were inserted brook trout were visible, finally after the right partners were in place the bypass channel and Rogers creek to the confluence have demonstrated that brook trout now utilize this new water, migratory fish are nowhere near and there is no overlap what so ever it will be roughly a 150,000 project once it’s all done and its habitat that has a direct and immediately measurable improvement on Brook Trout habitat.

 

I can list about a dozen or more things the group has done to specifically enhance or protect waters that Brook Trout utilize yet Migratory animals will NEVER have access to you asked for 1 if you want more references on it let me know, suffice to say the club is now looming on 4 million spent in the watershed and well over ½ of that is was and will continue to be spent on improving habitat that directly impacts Brook Trout. The group believes in whole watershed remediation in that work done upstream has an impact downstream right down to the very water quality coming out of the Credit and into your taps at home

 

As to migratory fish having access to habitat where Brook Trout exist, as per the managment plan the farthest up you would ever see a migratory would be Inglewood, with the reach to be still determined by a class EA, it wold be a far stretch to say Brook Trout exist below there these days, Natives come first thats a personal and club belief

 

On a side note before the speculation inuendo's and internet postings about the groups work or more at the very least check the facts before posting false facts please

I will answer boulded parts in order.

 

Huge difference between naturalized and native, not even close naturalized species replace native species in the ecosystem. Naturalized species by their very definition are invasive species ask your local bio and beleive me when I say there is a large movement in the MNR to protect natives from naturalized species.

 

Rogers Creek-Great thats what I wanted to hear and I commend the group on this work and any work that is done on native trout streams.

 

Posting without checking facts -your website mentions NOTHING of projects done to protect native species I did check went through the entire site so if you want to clear up some misconceptions you need to do a better job of getting the information out there.

 

As for the CRAA its a great group Ive worked with the guys a couple times in the past at the streetsville lift for egg collection and tissue samples. You do great work it just that its perceived (yes Im at fault here as well) as being very narrowly focused. Maybe a little more visibilty(ie website) on a pure native species project would help?

[aniceguy]

the website is currently getting a massive update too many tasks too short on time sadly. more volenteers would sure free up some time....

of course there is a difference between a native and naturalized, its a bit of a leap to still consider them invasives's though.

 

OMNR hirarchy in how they manage fish is native, naturalized and then we move to invasives, although I see this hirarchy changing soon to bump anything on the SARA ( species at risk ) above the natives

[Musky or Specks]

the website is currently getting a massive update too many tasks too short on time sadly. more volenteers would sure free up some time....

of course there is a difference between a native and naturalized, its a bit of a leap to still consider them invasives's though.

 

OMNR hirarchy in how they manage fish is native, naturalized and then we move to invasives, although I see this hirarchy changing soon to bump anything on the SARA ( species at risk ) above the natives

Tell that to the aussies about rabbits or dingos or toads. All introduced by man all not native to the ecosystem. Just because a species fills an biological niche that is currently unccupied does not mean its not an invasive species. I was a big time steelheade and appreciate their power and beauty. There is a large school of bios who would be more than happy to eradicate all pacific salmonids from the great lakes and replace them with the native lake trout. They just realize that with lampreys and economic factors its just not feasable.

[ScugogBoy]

No offense but thanks for the chuckle there…..

 

 

CRAA has done more work on the Credit to protect native fish populations than any other group, these are well known and proven facts, Brown Trout Rainbow Trout and I’m personally hoping very soon its confirmed Chinook are naturalized species so they also finally get some protection.

 

Has this happened...I know you st in some "Zone Board"...if they are naturalized will they be allowed above the Streetsville Dam to spawn in good areas?

[ScugogBoy]

Loisamilo....any response to the Kings above Streetsville yet.....were the Zone meetings held?...what seem to be your goals for 2010...thank you sir for your answers and info.....do you chaps ask for input from the public or just formulate your own plans and wishes?...is there an office to send opinions and requests to?...thanks again.

[aniceguy]

Scugog Boy ontario streams had a PDF file of the Credit River Managment Plan on it that covers what the directives are on the Credit, this document is a template for how various fish are managed on the Credit. Right, wrong or indifferent its the way its managed at this point Currently Chinooks are stopped at the Streetsville Dam due to the plan mentioned above.

 

Personally Id like to see them get up the system and do thier thing, but other watershed groups I think would have extreme issues with that.

CRAA will have a directors meeting to discuss projects for 2010 and beyond in a few days actually . We always welcome input from anyone who cares about a fishery www.craa.ca is a great venue to add your perspective desires or post your intention to help the club with its various projects, we always want new members and fresh blood.

Edited January 25, 2010 by aniceguy

[craigdritchie]

The relationship between steelhead, brown trout and brook trout has already been documented to death on dozens of different tributary streams flowing into each of the Great Lakes. It has been clearly established, by MNR and others, that steelhead have little, if any, effect on resident brown trout and brook trout populations.

 

Brook trout and steelhead have co-existed in tributaries to Lake Superior, Georgian Bay, Lake Huron and Lake Ontario for more than 100 years. Brook trout populations in southern Ontario have declined primarily as a result of habitat degredation, rather than competition from other species. This is why they've also disappeared from systems where steelhead and brown trout are absent.

 

Musky or Specks: I agree there are biologists out there who would love to eradicate all Pacific salmonids from the Great Lakes and replace them with lake trout. Thing is, the bios have a dual responsibility - to the fish, to be sure, but also to the people of Ontario. Bottom line is, nobody wants lakers. People want coho, chinook and steelhead. That has to count for something.

 

Louis and Mike - I'll spring for that case of beer, but I think we'll all have the same things to say.