Dutch01

I think their needs to be very tight controls over its use. We have drinking ages for a reason and pot should also have a legal age, and its not 16.

 

 

I agree with this. We have done a good job discouraging smoking cigarettes in youth and our rates are at historic lows. Our pot use rate among youth is another story. We have the highest rate in the developed world, despite decades of prohibition. I see no reason we shouldn't try the same tactics with weed where youth are concerned. It might work, it might not. But it can't do worse than prohibition has.

 

I'm a Dad. I would prefer my Son make the choice that you did and focus on his education. When he's 18 it will be his choice. Time will tell.

 

It's not even a debate. Pot is sometimes used as a painkiller, is it better than ALL pharmaceutical painkillers?

 

Define better. More effective than opiate pain killers? Sometimes yes, sometime no. Less addictive than all of them? Yes.

 

I had a friend rupture his spleen in a car crash in the 80's. A month in the hospital on their painkillers turned him into a raging opiate addict. He was a competitive bodybuilder and Judoka. He ended up with AIDS from sharing a needle, and went for a long walk goodbye on the train tracks. Dead at 35. Opiates took him at 19 though, they just took a while to kill him.

Dutch the only way your way of life will be possible is the collapse of society. Then you will have the right to do anything you want. The down side is so does everyone else. You smoke your weed and I get to shoot you because I want to exercise my right of not having weed smoked around me. The argument you propose is just not possible so to argue it is to go to hypothetical situations that have no relevants in living here and now. I have had lots of people as you call losers who are just people who are down on there luck and with a helping hand they climb back up into society. The ones that turn to drugs, alcohol, or other life numbing items will stay down in the hole. Making a drug easier and glorifying it just as we did to alcohol and tobacco will damage society. Make it a pharmaceutical regulate it, tax it and limit its availability to those that need it is fine. Your quest to educate and change attitudes is refreshing but the place you wish to lead them does not exist at this time.

Wow, where to begin with this one (I intend no offense if it seems like I'm singling you out here)....

 

Dutch the only way your way of life will be possible is the collapse of society. Then you will have the right to do anything you want. The down side is so does everyone else. You smoke your weed and I get to shoot you because I want to exercise my right of not having weed smoked around me.

This is......I'm not even sure how to respond to this. I have advocated for a society that a. allows responsible adults freedom of choice, where that choice does not infringe on the rights of others and b. holds individual adults responsible for their decisions - as opposed to holding us collectively to the lowest standard of the least responsible among us. I'm not sure how you make the leap from that to a wild west anarchy with shootouts to solve disagreements. Maybe I'm missing something here.... Having said that, the status quo requires me to deal with criminals in order to obtain my marijuana, so it's much more likely I will be shot now under a prohibitionist regime, than under the society I envision and advocate for.

 

 

The argument you propose is just not possible so to argue it is to go to hypothetical situations that have no relevants in living here and now. .

 

What I propose is not only possible, but the minimum standard that we should all aspire to.

 

I have had lots of people as you call losers who are just people who are down on there luck and with a helping hand they climb back up into society. The ones that turn to drugs, alcohol, or other life numbing items will stay down in the hole. Making a drug easier and glorifying it just as we did to alcohol and tobacco will damage society.

I called them losers because it was expedient, which does not make it right. I am a Child and Youth Worker by training (though I do not work in that field any longer). I have education and experience in developmental psychology and addictions counselling, so I believe I am qualified to speak on this subject. I didn't intend to disparage people who are down on their luck, and to anyone offended I apologize unreservedly. I was illustrating the point that if marijuana didn't exist, it is likely these people would be in the exact same life situation, only with a different drug of choice. In any case, because the adults in this example act irresponsibly, why should I be included in a collective sanction? Can you please quantify and qualify the manner and degree to which you believe legalization will "damage society"? I'm looking for arguments with citations here, not anecdotes.

 

Make it a pharmaceutical regulate it, tax it and limit its availability to those that need it is fine.

Who best to determine need? Drug companies with profits to earn? No thank you. I am the best person to make decisions in my life that affect no one else.

 

Your quest to educate and change attitudes is refreshing but the place you wish to lead them does not exist at this time.

Thank you, I appreciate that (sincerely). If this place doesn't exist then I guess I will have to redouble my efforts to make it so! I am still struggling to understand why anyone believes they have the right to make my choices for me. I can argue relative harm all day (and cite sources too), and I can at least understand where people are coming from. But as soon as I move past relative harm to individual liberty (the more relevant argument in my mind), I'm suddenly trying to foment revolution and anarchy ?!?!? How many of you on this site like being told what to do and how to live? I'm guessing none. If I was a vegetarian and attempting to force the government to ban hunting and meat eating, I would be roundly vilified (and rightly so). I am not asking anyone to change their life in any way - I don't want anyone to take up smoking, I'm not asking to smoke in front of children at a park, I'm not even asking people to like weed. I am asking them to let me make my own choices, lest I get the idea I can start making theirs for them (t!t for tat!).

I will say this; I would love to sit and discuss almost any topic with you be it fishing or life in general. You are always welcome here (bring your own bag) There is always a cold beer in the fridge for those that partake! We might not always agree but we'll have a great time debating it!

Awesome sentiment and I just might take you up on that one day

What part of this don't you understand?:

 

I know that pot has ruined a few lives, I know a family that have borrowed money from and stolen from almost every member of the family so they could buy their $300.00 or $400.00 a month in pot. I have seen them borrow money from friends, hock family jewlery for peanuts and never get it back, go to the food bank get what they can and sell it, send their kids to school without proper shoes or food...... all so they could buy their bag of pot. They spend anywhere from $300.00 to $400.00 a month on pot and more if they can get it.

 

(Most of the family won't even let them in the house any more because of the thefts. I know for a fact she pawned her grandmothers rings and other jewlery for pennies of what it was worth just so she could buy pot.

 

They bought a car from a family member for a very good price because someone was trying to help them get back on their feet then never paid for the car, borrowed money from her grandmother and anyone else that she could because she always had a good jerk story and never paid it back.

 

They moved in to a family members basement apartment because they had no jobs and no place to live, it was a beautiful two bedroom apartment and all they were suppose to do was pay utilities and help out around the place. They never paid a cent, never contributed an hour of help, caused hundreds of dollars in damages and finally had to be forced out "but they always had enough money to go buy their bag of pot!"

 

It has driven a wedge between other family members to the point where many of them don't even talk to each other any more. Her own father she bled dry to the point where when he passed away there was no money to bury him other than what the government paid and even then she was trying to figure out how she could score a few bucks. It was so bad that even her own brother and sister wouldn't attend the service. Go ahead and pick that apart all you want)

 

 

I know another young man, never did drink, just doesn't like the stuff, use to fish and hunt all the time, loved being out doors and always worked hard; today you can't get him off the couch, he doesn't get excited about anything unless he is down to his last bud or vial of oil and even then it is like he is in a fog. You can tell me it doesn't ruin lives but I have seen it with my own eyes but to be honest with you I have seen a lot more lives ruined from booze than from pot!

 

( what use to be a bright hard working bright young man with a beautiful family is now out of work more than he is in it, doesn't get to see most of the rest of the family just because he can't be bothered, his sister has stage four nonhodgkins lymphoma and is on her fifth round of chemo. He is always too busy "sitting out back smoking a joint" to even go and see her. The only time he has even seen his father in the last three years is when his father makes the effort to go and see him and then it's sit and watch him smoke up".)

 

You go right ahead and pick that apart all you want! I am not saying that pot should be banned, I have seen booze do a lot more damage but you can't tell me pot has never destroyed any families!

 

Now if that hasn't explained the issues clearly enough maybe it's time to cut back a little

Cliff, I'm sure that took a long time to write, and I know it's your opinion so technically speaking I'm not telling you you're wrong......

 

First, no offense but these people you describe are losers. The world is full of them. But pot is not why they are losers. If it wasn't pot, it would be something else (another drug, food, sex, etc.).

 

If they were fat and dying of heart disease, while still stuffing their faces with cheeseburgers, would you be blaming beef? Would you be saying beef should be banned for everyone because *some* people can't handle it? I seriously doubt that.

 

I know you are just responding to a question, so I'm not singling you out specifically. I can't change attitudes by staying silence though. I want society to start holding individuals responsible for their failings. I want society to stop telling me that I have to live a certain way because someone else f*cked up.

 

I often hear people from older generations than mine say that the problem with society is that no one is held responsible for their actions anymore. They may well be correct. In this case, those two parents are the problem, and I shouldn't be affected as a result of their failings.

Once cannabis is legalized not much will change in our society. The sun will still come up every day, we will go to work to provide for our families etc. Maybe our society will become a more friendlier happy society than it is now. The notion that I hear from a lot of people is they don't want society walking around stoned out of their minds. That is such crapola. They legalized gay marriage years ago and none of my fishing buddies have turned gay because its now legal for gays to marry. If heroin was legal would you start doing heroin?

 

Its all about freedom of choice, and as far as gateway drugs go I would have to say alcohol is holding the number 1 spot and always has.

Thank you!

Capitalism, especially in its advanced stages, is actually terrible for regular people.

 

If you ran one million computer simulations of a capitalist system to completion, you would get the same result one million times. All money and power concentrated in just a few hands.

Did you miss my second last post? For obvious reasons I am not going to name names but I am obviously close enough to some to know the details and believe me it has caused a lot of grief to many people in their family!

Guys, this has nothing to do with pot. Adults making bad choices are solely responsible for their own consequences. I have said it before and I'll say it again:

 

If we hold the most responsible of us to only the freedoms that the least responsible among us can handle, then none of us will be free.

 

I find it strange that so many people think their opinion on my choices matters. I am not trying to force a choice on anyone, and I won't accept anyone else thinking they have the right to force choices on me, no matter what their anecdotal experience leads them to believe.

 

We all need to live and let live, let adults make their own choices, and hold them alone responsible for their actions.

Check out buck perry's book spoonplugging. Weather, light and water conditions and how the impact fishing and fish activity is explained in good detail. The best resource I have seen on the subject by a mile.

Thanks for the tip!

Try that rum in coconut water, it's awesome.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

 

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

None are more free than those who are willing to fight for their rights. For even if you lose the fight, you went down swinging!

 

Dutch01, 2015

I think the world of you and I love most of your posts but I think you need to take a closer look: Our "government" already dictates so many aspects of our lives and taxes and many more.

 

When you really look at it they already dictate so much of what we can or can't do! Seat belts, life jackets, safety kits in boats, motorcycle helmets, they tax the heck out of tobacco (but they also tax the heck out of stop smoking aids).

 

Such a contridiction, tax a woman's sanatiry supplies, tax food, it's almost to the point where they tax the water we drink and the air we breath, You need a licens to fish hunt, hunt certain species, own a gun, buy a property, sell a property get married, die.....

 

Our democracy is sounding more and more like a dictatorship every day!

 

I recognize that we live in a social(ist) democracy. I grumble about high taxes (like everyone else), but I am generally happy that I live in a safe, kind and generous country (many caveats to that statement but that's not the rabbit hole I'm headed down here). Yes, the government creates laws, but they have limits. First, we have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that limits the laws government can pass. We also have a Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by parliament. So the notion that a law is just because it's a law is a logical fallacy.

 

For example, you can do something legal that is immoral - ie. Bank CEO's getting bonuses after creating a global financial crash that hurt us all - and escape legal punishment. But you're still wrong. You can do the right thing, but still be breaking the law. I'm stretching for an example because I am pressed for time (BBQ is almost heated up!). I believe it was Peru that passed a law recently that said abortion is illegal under all circumstances, even a pregnancy that was caused by rape or threatens the mother's life. In this case, a women who chose to have an abortion rather than die is breaking the law, but in my opinion doing the right thing (who am I to judge her choice anyways?). At one time it was actually illegal to sleep with another man. Now that idea is anathema to current public opinion.

 

The point I am making is that there are issues where the government has no business telling me what to do, and I believe personal use of marijuana is one of those areas. I refuse to be told what I can and can't do on this issue. If that means I have to go to jail, you can be sure I will be appealing to the SOC en route to the slammer!

 

This is silly but what the heck:

 

When the cops came for the stoners,

I remained silent;

I was not a stoner.

 

When they locked up the drinkers and smokers,

I remained silent;

I was not a drinker or a smoker.

 

When they came for the meat eaters,

I did not speak out;

I was not a meat eater.

 

When they came for the hunters,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a a hunter.

 

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

 

 

 

 

 

We all have to speak out for each other. If one Canadian is not free, none of us are.

I think the government is happy to keep us arguing the relative harms of weed versus alcohol or tobacco, precisely because it misses the real issue.

 

The real issue is one of liberty.

 

If someone else can tell me I can't have weed because it's bad for me, then I can tell them that they can't have cheeseburgers for the same reason. Or they can't drive a car because emissions are bad for us (or any number of other examples). And we'd both be in the wrong. We live in a free society. I don't make your lifestyle choices for you, and you don't make mine for me.

 

Further, while we elect government to govern, I don't concede to them the right to make this choice for me either. The choice is inherently mine, and mine alone.

So by this logic, since there is such a storm coming in tonight that there is a "special weather statement" coupled with the full moon we should have some nice fish porn to look at tomorrow?

 

If only I wasn't at work at sundown is at like 5pm...

I wish I could get up there tonight because I think you are right.

 

I checked the forecast for a town near where I fish, and it shows barometric pressure dropping from 103 right now to 99.8 by tomorrow evening.

 

Add in the full moon and I'm betting they're active tonight!

The guy who lives next to me has depression and anger issues. He smokes a lot of pot that can't help with his depression but maybe with the anger?? . Almost 40 with no job and way . I just don't think it is a net benefit for everyone.. I Do wish I had access to medicine made from it without the high..

Your neighbour is a loser. He would still be a loser without pot. It would be booze or coke or meth instead if it wasn't pot.

 

At any rate, some people can't handle a car, but that doesn't mean we should all have our cars taken way.

 

That being said usually whenever I have spare time is the best time for me to be on the water.

Truer words were never spoken!

I have an actual barometer that I swear by. A changing barometer always brings good fishing.

 

S.

Great idea! I'm going to have to get me one of those.

Interesting I believe the barometric pressure has a lot to do with it. Just to Add a curve to your thread what about wind direction back on simcoe an east wind shut down perching for us but some of the best whitie action we used to have was an east wind as the sto was kicking up

I believe wind was from the Southeast Saturday night but I can't quite recall....

 

Wind has an effect for sure, in this spot it also affects if you can cast to where the fish are. If there's a strong South wind, your cast is coming back on shore!

AKRISONER, don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. Each man has own tolerance for risk and you look a bit younger than me. I'm a little more risk averse now that I have a young Son who wants me to come at the end of the day!

 

Because my boat is new (to me anyways), I don't have an established confidence in her yet. Add in no survival suit and I decided to winterize it already.

 

Besides, I'm killing them from shore right now so it was as easy decision.

That makes more sense. MNR is saying they won't even look at cougar pics unless there is a definable landmark to place it's location....

I've always known there was a correlation, but I'm trying to nail it down and make it a science!

 

There was an almost full moon, but that was also true Friday and Sunday. This also wasn't quite before the storm, more during. I think it is the barometric pressure drop that preceded the storm that triggers them. I'm going to start monitoring pressure more closely moving forward.

 

I was supposed to be back up there Wednesday night, but it's supposed to rain much worse! I'm still drying out from Saturday, not sure I'm willing to brave it to test my theory....

Interesting weekend in the Kawarthas.

 

Two of my buddies decided to jump the gun and head up on Friday instead of Saturday as we had planned. They got two walleye. These are good fishermen, skilled at catching walleye and very familiar with "our spot". I tend to think if the fish were there, they would have found them.

 

We went Saturday, and braved the rain, because I had a hunch..... The weather was awful, with driving rain and gusty winds, but boy did it pay off!. We hammered them all night, 23 walleye in 4 hours. Largest was 5.5#, and most were over 3#. My Son caught the big girl, it was his personal best. It was a night to remember for sure.

 

Same two guys, pissed that they missed out, headed up last night again. The only got one (albeit a 30" fish!).

 

I'm curious if you guys have experienced this before. Do you think it was the rain, that it was warmer than other nights this week. Or maybe it was the barometric pressure (my theory). Let me know if you have any opinions one way or another.

 

PS: pics are tough at night, but we got a few. I can't upload from my phone because I have to remove EXIF data first. Does anyone know a good app for this?

This time of year a pfd is not enough in my opinion. I'd only be in big water this time of year with a survival suit.

Not my image, but this was posted on fb not too far from our house

 

Are those Cougars? How can MNR all but deny they exist with pics like this?

Heck even driving on Nyquil is dangerous

Exactly