i second that post by bruce. Our goal is too be self sustaining, but there are sooo many variables to deal with. We have a large family, school, hockey, soccer and other " social" activities that i believe the kiddos deserve. So its hard to step away from that. But, for years now we have been teaching the kids to fish, forage, start fires etc. next up is hunting. Its gonna take time, but in ten years, i can totally envision us in the bush with minimal needs. But its tough, even the mere mention of the word gas, changes everything