john from craa

Some of the best resident brown fishing I have enjoyed is on the Salmon River, upper and lower fly zone, and even below in the bait section. Big, fat browns up to 8 lbs on caddis and stone flies. And good numbers too. And that section is wide open to the lake. Pere Marquette is world renowned for browns...and wide open to lake fish. Like it or not, Pacific salmon are part of our ecosystem now, as are steelhead, browns, in addition to the native species like brookies, lakers, and perhaps one day Atlantic's, plus bass. The sad thing is all these dams screw up bass populations and all species of minnows, suckers, dace, etc. Some of our healthiest rivers have few if any barriers...Wilmot, Bowmanville, Pine, Bighead, etc. The Bighead has some tremendous resi brown and brookie fishing...and yes, in sections wide open to lake run fish. If temperatures and flow are adequate for trout then habitat, habitat and habitat are the most important limiting factors.

Musky or Specks - your note (19) proves the need for allowing access past Norval. Temperature! The Credit River hits 82-84F at Norval in summer. Too hot for steelhead, coho or browns and Atlantic's. Only during cold wet summers can salmon and trout survive in decent numbers below Norval Dam. Water temps in Streetsville now peak at 87F. CRAA has made great progress by planting 470,000 trees along the river and tributaries to shade the river, but the rapidly expanding urban areas are destroying tributaries and further reducing the lower river (below Norval) health. Beeton Creek is also a very different system. It is fed by localized groundwater inputs from the north side of the Oak ridges moraine, along with drumlin fields and other smaller moraines with a surficial geology of sandy loam, sand, and gravel. Beeton Creek's limiting factors are agricultural drains, weeping tile, deforestation of the riparian zone and low gradient for much of the system. The lower Credit's geology is 100% clay and shale. The groundwater transmisivity of the Credit watershed downstream of Norval and east of the Credit to Inglewood is 1/1000 to 1/10,000 compared to the upper river above and west of Norval. Bottom line, the Credit River below Norval has virtually no ground water inputs, no springs, no aquifers and no cold water tributaries that are needed to support juvenile trout and salmon. The very limited potential the area had was destroyed in the early 1800's by deforestation and erosion of the top soils and damage is further amplified by parking lots, roof tops and roads in Brampton and Mississauga. Water temps in the Credit peak around 74F from Inglewood to Terra Cotta. Groundwater from the northwest side (Escarpment and Amabel formations) maintain cool water that is heated by the sun from reduced forest cover, widening stream channel and agricultural impacts. From Terra Cotta to Glen Williams water temps now peak about 77F. CRAA's reforestation of three farms has dramatically improved this reach. One farm had no trees over 700m with water temps increasing by 5F. This farm was the start of the thermal kill zone that lasted all the way to Port Credit before we planted it. 18,000 trees in that single 700m section alone and trout could live throughout it (if they could get there). The last major groundwater input to the Credit occurs from where the CRAA hatchery is downstream for 3km. Huge alluvial deposits allow groundwater from the west to enter the river where temps actually drop 2F. The river then enters the Queenston shale section (red clay/shale) with no ground water where it flows for 7km to Norval. Water temps shoot up through here and in the head pond at Norval where the river becomes lethal to trout. Silver Creek adds some cool water, but not enough to lower temps below 80F. From Norval to Port Credit the river flows through the Georgian Bay clay and shale formation with no groundwater to speak of. The river is wide, poorly forested and heats up in the sun. Our efforts to reforest the river have helped...but undoing the damage of 200 years will take a century or more for the river to recover, narrow, deepen and mature old growth trees to shade it. There is plenty of spawning habitat, but the fry/parr normally die from heat stress by late June. Winter survival is reduced due to anchor ice. Egg survival is reduced by high sediment from farms, development and roads. A large part of CRAA's efforts have been using temperature loggers to monitor stream temps. It is maximum temperature and overnight recovery that are of primary concern. Max Temps (now (2013 and then 1998) Inglewood 74F/23.3C (2012-13) 76F/24.4C (1998) Good overnight recovery Terra Cotta 74F/23.3C (2012-13) 77F/25C moderate overnight recovery Terra Cotta - Rogers Creek 72-74F (2012-13) 85-88F (30-31C) (1998) Removal of dams and online ponds (2003-2009) Glen Williams 76F/24.4C (2012-13) 86F/30C (1998) moderate recovery Norval 82-84F/28C (now) 87F/30.5C (1998) poor recovery Huttonville 85F/29C 89F/31.7C (1998) poor recovery Streetsville 87F/30.5C 95F/35C (1998) poor recovery As you can see, all sites below Norval have peak summer temps that are lethal to trout. There are no cold water tributaries and no ground water discharges to create micro habitat survival. The only chance are storm sewer discharges that come out of cement pipes that cool water until a storm hits and the fish seeking refuge are killed by a blast of hot water from road and parking lot runoff. The Credit's chinook run is 10-15% wild based on clip returns (recent years). It was higher (20-40% wild) prior to 2004 (based on PhD study) when more chinooks passed Streetsville before DFO changed the dam to stop lamprey. Chinook runs were 20-30,000 in the late 80's, and have now declined to 5-10k at best. Reduced stocking and reduced survival of stocked chinook because of massive wild chinook numbers are the primary causes IMO. Bowmanville's chinook run is twice as big (and all wild), yet the Credit is 11 times larger (watershed size). The steelhead run is now around 20,000. This is due to CRAA's adult transfers past Norval and the cold summers of 2009 and 2010. Transfers have been reduced and typical summers (hot/dry) in 2011, 2012 and 2013 mean returns will drop quite a bit in the coming years. Cohos are sustained through stocking because they cannot access adequate habitat. Brook trout and resident brown trout that drop below dams are trapped and would die from heat stress too. Dams and deforestation destroyed a run of between 100,000 and 300,000 Atlantic salmon in the Credit. Yet a few people seem to think keeping those same dams around is a good thing. The US is removing dams every day from their rivers. Check out the Elwha or Condit Dam videos on YouTube. John

Hi all, Please check out the link below for more information about "Growing the Greenbelt" to include urban river valleys as part of the Green Belt Act. This is huge news to improve protection of our local rivers! http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page10142.aspx You can comment and show your support with these links: Proposed amendment to the Greenbelt Area boundary regulation EBR Registry Number: 011-6330 http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTE2NTEz&statusId=MTc0NDQx&language=en'>http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTE2NTEz&statusId=MTc0NDQx&language=en Proposed amendment to the Greenbelt Plan - Glenorchy Lands and Urban River ValleysEBR Registry Number: 011-6331 http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTE2NTEz&statusId=MTc0NDQx&language=en I had the pleasure of discussing this matter with both the Minister of Natural Resources and Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing 4-5 years ago and with the help of many other conservation groups the seeds have grown to this. This act will provide further protection to our river valleys to maintain green space, minimize impacts and development in the valley and allow our rivers to return to a greater state of health. And more wild fish! John

Hi all, Here is a link to a new 9 minute YouTube showing the whole CRAA fish ladder, tranfer and spawning process. The video has amazing underwater video of spawning steelhead in the Credit from member Rick Matusiak. Enjoy, John

CRAA Tree Nuresery and Farm Event Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:00 am to 1 PM Meet at the CRAA Tree Nursery (Glen Williams - between Georgetown and Terra Cotta). Take Mississauga Road north, left on Old School Road and follow to river valley. Work site is at corner of Old School and 10th Sideroad - signs will be up. Bring gloves, sunscreen, a hat and sunglasses. I also suggest long pants if possible. Part 1 will be to build new planting beds, move potted trees to plastic sheets for winter and pre-fill pots for next spring. Part 2 will be installing tree guards at the Hanc0ck farm that we planted in April. The trees are doing well but must be tree guarded by fall or the beavers will cut them down. We need 25-30 people out so make sure you plant to attend and bring your friends too! Project should be 4-5 hours depending on turnout. We will have lots of cold water. Work is rain or shine! Please post this message on any chat boards as well to spread the word.! John

100% heron damage...very common. With the low water from drought conditions and often trout seeking out shallow areas with cold water inputs like springs along the bank they are more exposed to heron predation than most years. As Craig said, a fish that size is a quick meal. I've seen them pull out fish up to 22" and have seen larger resident browns that died from heron spear marks. John

To view CRAA's Summer 2012 Newsletter click the attached link below. Lots of great info. Past newsletters are available on the clubs website as well. If you did not receive a copy of the newsletter by e-mail then you are NOT on our mailing list. To join the mailing list go to www.craa.on.ca and down the page in the centre you can enter your e-mail address. http://www.craa.on.ca/pdf/CRAALightlines-Summer2012.pdf Tight lines, John

Thanks to the more than 35 volunteers that came out to help today! With so many volunteers we finsihed everything on the list and more! We dug up about 1,500 trees from the CRAA nursery ranging from 3 to 20 feet tall from our growing beds. Smaller trees were potted in 5-20 gallon pots. About 1,000 of the largest trees were planted along the river including spruce, pine, fir, tamarack, cedar, poplar and maple. Over 1,000 m of open river bank was planted. Another 800 trees were potted for future work and another 1,000 smaller trees from the nursery were planted in beds for the 2014-15 seasons. Projects like this go a long way to repairing damage done to the river over the past 200 years and help create the best salmon and trout fishing the river has seen. In a few years shade will keep the water cooler, reduce erosion and improve trout, salmon and dozens of other species. Here is a link to some before and after photos of past CRAA planting sites over the past 15 years. http://www.craa.on.ca/fishing_beforeandafter.shtml Many hands make light work. I hope to see a lot more of you out there next time! John Peter with some big poplars in the 20 gallon pots. Remo, Terri, Peter, Paul and Alissia planting small trees into the beds. Trinity with a 6 foot white spruce. Mike with a 20 foot poplar ready for the river bank! Volunteers planting open field along the river. Instant forest by CRAA! Shade for years to come! More trees for the river. That huge silver maple beside my truck was planted by CRAA in 2003 as a 3" caliper, 15 feet tall. Now is 12" caliper and 40 feet tall. Make sure you don't miss the next event! We saw some sweet water, saw some nice fish and had a great time. John

I have fished a few of the Gaspe rivers and suggest you go if you like to see some truly incredible rivers. Most Gaspe rivers have drive/wade sections that you can access for a daily fee. Normally you must buy your license the night before or morning of the day you fish. Daily non res fees run $50-150/day with no guide. Guides can be booked for a couple hundred per day as well through the local ZEC office. You should contact the ZEC offices for more info. Each river has prime times too. Mid June is IMO a touch early. July would be the prime month, but runs also depend on weather, temps and rain which can vary a run by 2-3 weeks. If you have lots of money to burn you can go through camps which normally provide lodging, food and guides (range $350-1,500 per day). There are canoe/camp down the Matapedia, Boneventure being best options. Grand Cascapedia has the biggest fish, but is the most expensive and the best water is restricted to camps where you generally need to know someone to get prime weeks, then pay and arm and a leg. The rivers also have a daily catch limit of 2 to 4 fish and if you hit a prime day must stop fishing by law. But as noted, don't count on that. Average catch rates vary from 1 fish for 3 to 7 days fishing depending on the time of year, reach, etc. On the positive, the rivers are crystal clear and like nothing we have locally. I'm talking 25 feet of vis or more. Deep pools and runs and you can see fish easily if they are there. The fish see little pressure and can be very aggressive. I had a teen Ats rise to a bomber 7 times once...never took it. And I lost a fish over 30 lbs in the Grand Cascapedia while my fishing partner landed a 34 lb fish. If you find a river with a good run of fish in then I suggest hiring a guide for 1 day to learn the system and then fish it for 2-3 days to increase your odds. Knowing where the fish hold is invaluable and worth the price of a guide for a day. On a limited budget stay in hotels in each town and fish by daily permit. Also check out the Matane River fishway. It was viewing windows and daily counts. Great to see the fish, know how many have been lifted and you can always fish pools 1 and 2 below the day by permit. Enjoy, John

I would also say that is a brown, not an Atlantic. The photo is not high enough resolution to view the dorsal, but if you close the mouth I bet the jaw extends well past the back of the eye. It appears to pass the eye when the mouth is open in the photo. Still a very nice fish. If you have a high res photo send to me via e-mail and I'll take a closer look to verify. [email protected] As for Dave's post, you highlight two points, targeting out of season fish and taking a photo of OOS fish. There is no doubt there are more and more people showing up after a rain, usually with float gear and spey rods that no doubt hope to accidently catch one. But your example of the sturgeon versus a guy tossing a spinner for bass is absurd. Spinners are one of the top lures for river smallies, so are flies. They also catch bows, browns, Pacific's and Atlantic's. A huge ball of worms sitting on the river bottom only catches one specie...sturgeon. One measure we have asked anglers to follow is simply don't fish in warm water situations, i.e. above 22C water temps. This unwritten rule applies to resident trout as well. Closing the river does not make sense either. Why close down a fishery for bass, steelhead and browns and other fish just because of some incidently caught Atlantic's. Adult Atlantic salmon are present in the lower river every month of the year (between fresh fish and kelts/drop backs). Should we all stop fishing for all the other fish we all enjoy because we might catch one. Where do we draw the line? With three adult Atlantics found in the Forks last summer perhaps the implications to your fishing ethics are in trouble too. Tossing a dry or wet fly for browns in the UC and catching an Atlantic is the exact same. And tossing a dry fly and catching Atlantic parr and smolts is also the exact same. We all know they are there and we all know that drifting a fly through the Upper Credit has a high probability of catching an Atlantic at any size (far, far, far higher chances versus the lower river). Yet people still go fishing and catch them every day. And I have no issue with this at all. Again, why should we change our fishing if no harm is done and we are fishing for stream trout. Yet there are days I have landed more Atlantic smolts in the UC than trout in recent years, as have many others. On the issue of taking a photo of an OOS fish. The same law applies to rainbow, brown and brook trout in the Upper Credit as they have a zero limit and must be released immediatly to the stream. Yet you have posted many pics of resident browns that breaks your own ethics (and the law you state above). Your handling was good, fish were released unharmed and I have done the same and have no issue. But for you to take exception to one, yet exempt yourself from the same rules is the pot calling the kettle black. The scenario is the same tossing crank baits for walleye or pike in May and catching a bass on any lake. It happens to all of us and most anglers are quick to release the out of season fish unharmed. But I bet most would take a quick pic of a 5 pound+ bass. The biggest issue these fish face is mis-identification (both ways). Anglers reported several grilse killed from Erindale by anglers (and 4 were verified with pics this fall and reported to MNR). Just like I have found some anglers with buckets of chub and mixed in they had juvenile browns, bows and Atlantic's. And on other occasions many bass have been kept in May/June from the lower river. Education is the major concern for protecting all the species. Take a pic, don't take a pic. Your choice. But know your fish, handle them with care and enjoy fishing! John

Funding has gone into the three main tributaries thus far (Credit, Duffins and Cobourg), with some recent work on the Humber and Bronte. Chris R from OFAH could outline their work on Cobourg and other systems. Cobourg has had much rehab work as a result. On the Credit CRAA has done much of the work, but OFAH, TU, CVC and others have done much work related or partially funding from the program too. As Justin noted, the largest project the program has spurred is the new fishway at Norval Dam on the Credit. The new fishway opens access for almost 100 hectares of cold water habitat that has been shut off since 1850! Just how much habitat is that? It's about the same as Duffins, Cobourg, Oshawa and Wilmot Creeks combined. I worked on the project for 13 years to make it a reality. The Atlantic program and funding for the specie, and others like redside dace made it possible to design and build the new fishway. In recent decades government funds for this sort of work have been very tight. Managers and NGO's like CRAA plan work to benefit all the species, but the funding has to be targeted at species at risk. Nobody is interested in funding to help a dace or sucker or a steelhead of chinook. But bringing back a lost specie has merit from third party, non fishing types. The Norval fishway has lifted roughly 20 species this year. Funding was provided for Atlantic salmon, redside dace and American Eel. Yet we all know the fishway will benefit dace, chub, sucker, bows, browns, bass, etc, etc. The fishway cost roughly $300k for design and build plus siginificant in kind. CRAA funded about 40% of the project though Species at Risk (MNR), CFWIP (MNR) and the National Fish and Wildlife Fund from the US that Justin noted. Behind the scenes these funding apps take hundreds of hours for volunteers to write, administer, complete accounting and work with contractors and MNR staff. CRAA has completed between 3 and 4 million dollars worth of rehab aimed at all species. But in recent years the Atlantics have added to our success in finding every more scarce funding sources. The last 5 years has seen maybe 25,000 trees, a dozen ponds removed or bottom drawn, and many other small scale rehab works as a result of the program As for cost of rearing fish...I have no idea. MNR just invested a great deal of money in Normandale as a result of the program, and that has made space for chinooks as well. The cost for each age group should be somewhat similar, except food costs might vary. Example is young chinooks eat a lot more food than young Atlantics and bows so maybe their cost is a little higher due to food. I would guess Atlantic and steelhead will have similar costs at the hatchery since they have a similar growth pattern. I guess from Wallicio's comment we should not be fishing the river at all. I have fished for smallies and chinooks/coho/bows for 25-30 years and just because we catch some Atlantic's I'm not about to change my fishing heritage. Having a quick photo certainly benefits with fish id and confirmation and is not illegal as Dave attemps to point out. As long as the fish is released immediatly and unharmed your following the laws. Like any release, proper handling is important. Perhaps we can make little signs up for the roe bags and flys that say "not for Atlantics". Teaching the fish to read...that might take time. As for strains, MNR has different protcols depending on the source to control disease. Fish from same waters, fish from elsewhere in the province and fish from out of province and each has a different level of control. It is not a simple case of driving to NB and picking up 100k of eggs and driving home. The rules require either the eggs come from a certified disease free hatchery, in which case they still test the eggs and various life stages of the fry and adults. If not certified they require the body of each adult to be tested for a hige lineup of diseases. The rules are hard to work with, but better this than the potential disaster unfolding on the West Coast where Infectous Salmon Anemia has likely spread from fish farms to wild BC salmon. Controling things like VHS and Whirling disease are prime examples. Atlantics are now classified as extinct. Classic government screw up as we catch more now than ever. Is that extinct? As for a season and fishing, I would hope in a few years we will see a catch and release season. The end goal is a viable self sustaining population with a sport fishery. But that is in the future. I doubt we will see Maritime type of rules, but having some sections restrited to no bait or fly only might be a good option for management and attracting new investment, but never the whole river. The specie went extinct mainly from dams, habitat damage and comercial fishing. So as long as we have strict harvest controls angling should be fine. John

Great passion. It would be awesome to see that much energy put into rehabilitation, access, sustainable harvest and public education. I have a biology degree, did my thesis on the Credit's cold water fishery and have volunteered an estimated 20,000 hours to making many of the north shore tribs a better place for fish and anglers so I would argue I am up to speed on the program more than most. I am also the only person to serve on both the original Atlantic salmon committee and two of the present day committees. And I am 100% supportive of the reintroduction of Atlantic salmon. I love steelies, chinooks, coho, browns, brookies and lakers, but Atlantic's are a great addition to our fishery. As a game fish, for expanding angling opportunities and the fact they are a native specie. The program is not perfect and has had many hurdles, some placed by MNR themselves. The lack of huge returns to keep anglers happy is no doubt the biggest hurdle. However the program has good goals and the new program (2006 to present) has better design, planning and real effort behind it for the first time. I would argue there is some common mis-information or half truths posted in this thread that I hear often. I hope you enjoy my take on the matter. I appologize up front for being long winded. First, the 14" Atlantic mentioned above was most likely a 3 year old smolt, not a fish from the lake. However, it is possible for a fry to hit the lake and return at that size with one summer in the lake. We see this with steelhead, where some stay for 3 years in the river and some leave after 1 year and after a year in the lake are 12-14". But my bet is 3 years in the stream by a long shot. The most common age we have seen thus far for returning Atlantic salmon locally is 2 stream years and 1 lake year, so age 3 and averaging 22-25" in length and 4 to 5.8 pounds. I have to say if we are going to discuss stocking and numbers it is neccisary to inform all readers what each age means and how they compare. To say the MNR stocked 500,000 Atlantic fry and 500,000 chinook fingerlings and call that equal is like comparing apples and oranges. One must also look at the size (weight) and strain of the fish for the discussion. A 1 gram Atlantic fry is not the same as a 30 gram steelhead smolt. Atlantic salmon, coho and steelhead seem to follow a similar juvenile life patterns (stream life). 18-24 months in the stream, then smolt to the lake. Chinook only spend 1-2 months in the stream. They have adapted to produce large eggs and large fry that leave the river fast. The river has the most predators and the greatest threat of all, high temps in summer and freezing in winter. By avoiding these two extremes chinook have adapted well to maximize the most stable habitat, the lake (or ocean originally). The hatchery process greatly accelerates this process for chinook too, by hatching eggs in December and extending feeding prior to lake life to as much as 6 months. Chinook fry in the wild are 1gram in May, whereas hatchery chinook ate 5-7 grams in early may and average 4-5 grams at stocking in mate April. A 7 gram chinook can eat a 1 gram chinook. The majority of Atlantic stocking has been 1 gram Atlantic fry, and even the larger fish have to spend 2-18 months in the river that the chinook do not. Look at numbers: These are for the Credit specifically: 2006 to 2009 (grilse return years of 2008-2011). Year, Fry, Fingerling, Yearling, First adult year, Return estimate 2006, 124000, 50500, 28200, (grilse age 2008), Estimate 49 (only grilse (3-6 pound fish) 2007, 148000, 500, 0, (grilse age 2009), Estimate 75 (mostly grilse, some 2 lake year fish to 8-9 pounds) 2008, 94800, 31600, 31900, (grilse age 2010), Estimate 200 (grilse, more 7-9 lb fish and a few 10-13 pound fish) 2009, 233000, 150216, 43140, (grilse age 2011), Ongoing this fall. Best guess will be 400-500. (Up to 17 lbs seen) Totals 590100 232816 103240 926156 total over 4 years. Expressed as a yearling equivelent, (I have used 1:15 for fry and 1:5 for fingerlings), this gives us a total of 188,400 over 4 years. These yearling fish (or equivelents) will still spend 2-18 months in the stream after this point. But this gives us a better comparsion to stocking of other species. 100% of these fish are LaHave River strain, from 4th-5th generation Ontario MNR hatchery brood stock. New strains only begin stocking 2011-2012 and will show any returns in 2013-2014 or later. The program is not producing adults like the chinook (40+ years adaption), coho (40+ years adaption) or steelhead (110 years adaption). However, the returns have increased with more stocking and so have the returns of adult Atlantic salmon. This clearly shows success and an upward trend of returns. Lets talk about fish sightings/catches. 2008 about 10 were reported to me from anglers, plus ones we collected from the fishway or sanctuary by fishing, electroshocking and siene netting. In 2009 about 15 were reported from anglers. In 2008 I personally saw 4 Atlantics the entire fall in the fishway channel. In 2009 I saw about 8 the entre fall. In 2010 I had over 50 angler reports (verified from pictures from sources I don't trust on ID). In one morning I counted over 30 pass through the ladder and saw them 1 out of 2-3 checks on the fishway channel. This fall today is the first day I have not seen an Atlantic in the fishway channel since early September. Some days I saw 10-15, other days 1-5, but every time I looked, they were there. Yes, there were 50-200 chinooks and some bows and the odd brown and coho. But the point is they are far, far more common in 2011 than even last year or 2009. The largest lifed from the ladder was 90 cm and 14.4 lbs, but many others in this size range were seen. I also know at least 10 anglers that hooked close to or over 20 each on the Credit this fall (Justin and myself included). And to clarify, all in the regular open sections since we are not collecting from the sanctuary at all. The 3 grilse Craig noted were not found at Streetsville. They were found by CVC in early August 77 km from Lake Ontario. One of them above 5 dams! The other two above 3 dams. CVC shocked roughly 700m of stream for these (thanks Jon), yet we have roughly 30 km of suitable summer habitat. There may not have been thousands, but one hundred in the upper river by early August is very reasonable. I also had two in the lake out of 5 trips. Sure I had 20 chinooks, a couple coho and a few dozen bows too. But that is the highest lake average I have had. The key will be seeing these fish start to spawn and adapt. As stated before, we are dealing with 20 years of hatchery inbreeding. Yet the returning fish are sweet, chrome and strong. Using the adults to build higher return rates and develop a Lake Ontario strain is what will move towards better return rates and a fishery that might make most anglers happy. Allowing fish to access prime spawning grounds will also achieve this. This is where NY is ahead of Ontario. The have better resoruces and less red tape. We have a lot of good people in MNR, but they are tied up in red tape. The start of this article speaks to 3 years of wild Atlantic salmon in the Salmon River. NY until last year was paying lip service to the program, stocking 30-50,000 low quality Atlantic yearlings into the Salmon River. Thier strain is mainly Grand Lake I beleive. The fish suprised all and started reproducing. Now the USGS has re-tooled a small hatchery to collect and hold returning adult Atlantic salmon to the SR hatchery and use those eggs to raise and stock additional yearlings. So for the first time since 1886 adult Atlantic salmon that survived Lake Ontario will be used to produce more hatchery fish rather than fish from another lake or ocean. I would be willing to bet NY has higher returns by 2020 because of this. And this is the one major thing I would like Ontario to change. But to do this takes time, effort and a quarentine area at the MNR hatchery. To address other issues: Atlantic salmon are not replacing chinooks. They are in addition too. Secondly, MNR and NY cannot stock 500,000 more chinook, coho or steelhead into the lake over fears of ruining the predator-prey balance. They can stock that many Atlantic's because they know there is a lower survival rate and it is not enough to mess with the balance. And now they are dealing with proof the chinooks and coho are producing far more wild fish than most managers ever though possible. In the end, as Louis noted, even if the fish never return, the funding brought forth by outside sources (not government) and matched funding has added far more funding the rehab and help our local rivers than ever before. Even if someone hates Atlantic salmon they should be thankful the program is benefiting all the other species we have and enjoy. As Aaron said, Rome was not built in a day. NY lake fishing creel data also shows the highest lake catch and harvest of Atlantic salmon in the past two years. Not a coincidence. The present MNR program that was ramped up in 2006 has stocked about 3 million Atlantics in 6 years. But over 50% have been in the past 2 years and are still in the streams as juveniles. The new strains are just reaching maturity in the hatchery to produce eggs. So this fall will be the first year MNR can produce a substancial amount of eggs from the two new strains for stocking fry in 2012 and yearlings in 2013 to contribute to the fishery in 2014-2017. Will they be better than LaHave...who knows. But LaHave fish are producing growing returns. MNR has not been able to get other strains yet. This is due to lack of places with surplus eggs, disease concerns/regulations and hatchery quarantine space. It would be great to get our hands on Restigouche or Cascapedia salmon eggs. But that will not happen unless we see continued and growing success and ANGLER SUPPORT! It would be great to see anglers publically thank sponsors and staff for doing their best and trying. Some do. But far too many choose to trash the programs and this only hurts us all. Why would any company donate or invest in a hornets nest like this. CRAA has been refused grants several times in the past few years over this issue. Why donate to a cause to get pissed on? Far more productive to find the positive and build on it. I for one would like my children to inherit more than I did, not less. I could go on and on and on, but have much work to do and my tree stand is calling. I have dozens of pics sent to me this fall, but no time to post. Tightlines, John

Sean, your interest and willingness to help is awesome and a lot of adults could learn from you. Sadly, as Louis posted, since 2009 we have not been permitted to have youth under 16 help or watch the lifts. My children loved to help when they were permitted and are always upset when they cannot even come and help/watch for the past two years (they are 7/9). Ironically, Mark, the CRAA volunteer who manages the fishway for us started volunteering at the lift when he was 12 and helped every year. He turns 24 this year. That speaks to the value of getting youth involved. We will have 1-2 tree plants in May and other events so please check the CRAA website for updates and our newsletters if you can make an event. And you will be 16 in no time. We hope youth will be permitted at the Norval fishway operation when that ladder is opened. Thanks, John

The next lift will be Sunday/Monday based on weather. Louis or I will post when we know based on weather. Last night was a bit slow with only 40 fish lifted. Thanks to many new faces that came out the past 2-3 nights from the OFC board. Awesome work guys/gals! It is an awesome experience to see a lot of bows, help the fish and give a little back. Great pics Slayer. John

Great response guys, I've also had several pm's. Many hands make light work and this is a huge undertaking. But we all benefit in the end with a better fishery in the river and a little extra help in the lake. youtube links on the process: http://www.youtube.com/user/CreditRiverAnglers?feature=mhum#p/f/15/K0cqo1JHGvs http://www.youtube.com/user/CreditRiverAnglers?feature=mhum#p/u/6/PuGT92_xWc8 Expect to get wet, so bring extra clothes. Come in from the east side and park at the end of Drenkelly Court. Keep in mind every night is different. Some days we have 300 fish and 10 people, other nights we have more people than fish. Not easy to predict, but cold and cloudy is slower, warm and sunny is busy as a rule. We need people to net fish, lift them, sort them, carry to tray for meaduring, come along and release them on transfers and release others at the dam, plus people to record data. Waders are not needed for some jobs, but rain pants are a good call...and a jacket that can get a little fish slime on it. Chest waders are needed for a few jobs. Having too many fish is a great problem caused mainly by volunteers doing this for the past 5 years. Most of our volunteers have full time jobs and family commitments including myself. But they still find the time or make the time to come and help the fish. Fishing is not just about catching fish, its about so much more. Some guys drive from Markham each night, others from downtown Toronto after work. And if you can't help here, help in your community. Most areas have fishing groups and they need your help too. John

The steelhead lift and transfer is done every night at 5 PM at the Streetsville Dam on the Credit. WE NEED VOLUNTEERS to lift and transfer fish. Only 7 guys tonight and 300 fish that need a lift. We need 20 people for that many fish! Here is a map to the access. http://www.craa.on.ca/streetsviller.shtml Lifts start at 5 PM and runs until we are done, often 8-10 PM each night. If we do not lift and trasnport the fish there will be no run of steelhead and no fishing in the lower Credit. There are several steelheaders that fish the Credit often and post pics all the time on this site and have not been out to the ladder to help. Maybe you guys can take a few hours off fishing and help the fish. If we do not have enough help we will have to cancel the lifts. And then the run will suffer and so will fishing. For those that have been out...thank you. John

The stocking ended in the Ganny in the mid-late 70's. The stocked fish would have been long dead of old age before the record lift occured. The best run was in 1989 (18,169). Steelhead live an average of 7-8 years. See page 12/92 of the following pdf from MNR. That record was all wild fish, except the usual stray level. http://www.glfc.org/lakecom/loc/mgmt_unit/LOA%2011.01.pdf Note in 2010 the run grew about 20% and they attribute it to NY's lower limits. John

Unless things have changed Bill, the Catt does not have a significant wild population. Last time I spoke with NY's head bios they were hoping to 10-20% wild fish at best. Sure, still some. But that system is overrun with strays from Penn. The Credit was 82% wild last year (09/10) and last fall about 98% wild, but most MNR stockers run in March so that percentage will drop once the lifts are complete. But alas, we still have to transfer the steelhead by hand. Cobourg Creek recently had a record year flood. That can help...too bad it didn't knock out a few more dams. Keep those comments coming to MNR. With OFAH apparently not supporting the lower limit the more people that speak up and do support it will help! There is plenty of science to support a two fish limit and none I have seen to support five fish (for a sustainable population). John

Dave, when I have time I will pull some info together for you. But understand that is way down on my priority list as we have shows, the fishway construction, fish lifts, hatchery work, tree plantings and dozens of funding apps to do, not to mention my family life comes first. I am also waiting on updated data from a few sources via MNR and that could take some time. And let me be clear, CRAA is not a steelhead club. CRAA is a pro fish club, unlike a few other groups active in the river that only work on 1-2 species. And I understand you are new to the UC. I am not. I have fished it since I was a kid and have freinds that have fished it since the 40's. You may note (if you have looked), that 1/3 of CRAA's exec team are mainly fly anglers and several only fly fish, with one being a past TU board member too. I think Louis is the only exec that does not fly fish...but he bass fishes so I guess we can let it slide). And note 1/2 of the clubs exec are also lake anglers (past and present) with boats and riggers. I know quite a few UC anglers that support wide open access and many UC land owners that also support wide open fish access. Yes there are some that are totally oppossed and many others that are somewhat oppossed because they have been fed false info based on long standing steriotypes. To look from the other side, why should non native, exotic brown trout introduced from Europe be given special segregation from another exotic (steelhead or chinook or coho)? Are they special? And especially when there is plenty of evidence to suggest the browns hurt the native brook trout. And by having a dam that blocks migration to protect the non native browns 100% fur sure hurts native fish including brookies, bass, etc, etc that become isolated or blocked from spawning by the dam. It is important for anglers to attend public meetings, be informed and work with others and MNR. Too many simply sit on the riverbank letting things pass by and complain after the fact. And Canadadude - CRAA is very aware of the economic benefits of the fishery - we funded some research and have been involved in several studies and CRAA runs a fish hatchery and we stock steelhead collected from wild parents every spring so I think we are also well aware of the benefit a good stocking plan has...as well as the risks. The $120,000 we funded for the ladder came from multiple sources with most coming from donations, fund raising and a major grant from a source in the United States. Tight lines, John

Mike - if you want to see more species of migratory fish use the ladder than make sure you voice your position at future public meetings as they come up. Nothing I would love to see more. But Mike, maybe you did not read my whole post or Justin's. We are missing 30-50% of the steelhead run that slip over Streetsville and get stuck below Norval and could not spawn successfully. This new ladder will allow us to lift those fish too. Not to mention browns, bass and any Atlantic's. That is all the migratory gamefish present in the section. Hopefully you make it out for some lifts this spring. My agenda ought to be crystal clear - try and get anglers involved and educated about the fishery we all enjoy and get more people to volunteer to make it better. Louis started the thread to update the community about the exciting project regarding volunteers raising money and helping MNR to build a fish ladder that is badly needed on the river. John

Talk about a classic de-railing of some truly awesome news. The issue of species mix is for another thread. For those who mis-read the opening post Louis made, CRAA hopes to lift steelhead at the new ladder rather than streetsville in spring. The steelhead will be manually transported to control spawning access as we have done for the past 7 years. As Justin noted, the drive will be short, rather than 40 minutes from Streetsville and fish that passed Streetsville will be lifted whereas they were missed in past years. That is awesome news in itself. Streetsville may be left open for fish to pass on their own in spring. Come fall both ladders will need to be manually operated to stop Pacific salmon at Streetsville, manually transfer steelhead and pass browns and Atlantics, plus other species past Norval. The fish are stopped/segregated by the rules created in the Fisheries Mgt Plan. Since the plan was writted in 1998-2002, a great deal of new information has come to light. This includes: 1. Chinook salmon are running between 40-70% wild in Lake Ontario based on fin clips. A decade ago we were told they were all hatchery fish (oops). 2. There is literally 10 times more research looking at species mix (i.e. browns and rainbows) today than a decade ago. Professional opinions were also not shared with anglers 12 years ago that also suggested resident browns would be fine. 3. Lake Anglers were excluded from the meetings, as well as Ontario Steelheaders and other groups. 4. Reviews of species mix focussed mainly on allopatric relationships (negative interactions) and failed to examine sympatric (positive) interactions. As scientific knowledge builds the examples of positive interactions substancially outweigh negative interactions. Without a doubt, any manmade barrier has negative impacts on fish when it blocks a natural system. This fish ladder serves to correct a wrong from the middle of the 1800's! What the future holds for lake fish to access the river is still to be detirmined. New information and research is always changing the outlook. What we know in 2011 is lightyears ahead of 2001 for the river and species mix. The value of allowing the dozens of minnow species to migrate freely once again in itself is astonomical. So is the value to lifting all the wild steelhead (even if it is for transport for now), or that resident browns that have been trapped below this dam will now have free access to spawn successfully for the first time ever. Or that rare migrating brook trout can for the first time in 160 years reach their spawning grounds again. Or that Atlantic salmon can also reach spawning grounds cut off for 160 years. Each and every one of these examples is cause for excitiment for the fishery. To put the species issue to bed, here are a few points. Before reading understand the following: Atlantic salmon, brook trout, bass and white sucker, etc ate all native fish. Brown trout, rainbow trout and Pacific salmon are naturalized NON native fish (but desired) Exotics are Asian carp, ruffe, goby, etc. New evidence also suggests Sea Lamprey were native to Lake Ontario, but this is still up in the air. There is not a single system in the Great Lakes where a resident population of non native brown trout was displaced by rainbows (not one). Yet there are many examples were steelhead runs exploded as a result of allowing increased access for rainbows (Grand and Saugeen Rivers are great examples - I have many more). There are many more rivers where browns and rainbows have co-existed for a century and both maintain strong populations. Lake Superior has many examples of brook trout doing extremely well with trout and pacific salmon all over the place. Once limits were lowered and hydro flows set the numbers are exploding in many systems according to several local researchers and anglers. The number one cause of fish decline are humans, not other fish. Looking at research there are papers covering the entire spectrum. Some suggest if a steelhead or browns or salmon shows up that brook trout will be lost, others suggest that brook trout are displacing pacifics and browns and steelhead. Some blame steelhead for preventing Atlantic success, yet other research shows the Atlantics displace rainbows. In all this there is only one constant. When dams are built they screw up fish populations. When they are removed they benefit fish. Biodiversity and habitat diversity are the keys to success, not species segregation and isolation. A river with only 1 specie of fish will produce x biomass, with 5 species it may produce 2x biomass and with 20 species it may produce 5x biomass. Each specie has a niche and as long as you have significant and variable habitat you will have multiple species with more fish than ever. ASF just spent 24 million dollars buying three dams on the Penobscot River in Maine. They plan to remove 2 and build a bypass for the third. That will open up 1,000 miles of river access to Atlanic salmon, stripped bass, and dozens of other species. Note the extent the US will go to to correct historical mistakes. They are 30 years ahead of Canada on such remedial works. John

Bronte Creek has several issues. Dams are the biggest problem! Dams heat the cold spring water up to 26-28C, far too warm for trout, thus killing juvenile cold water species below them due to heat stress. Dams also prevent fish from reaching spawning grounds and mixing to maximize genetic variation. Brook trout are isolated in many tiny tribs and cannot mingle or migrate due to the dams. Dams also prevent the natural movement of bedload (rock/gravel/sand/sediment) and impact the rivers natural functions. Lowville, Dakota Mills and Progreston Dams are all serios problems! Lower Bronte is actually fairly well forested, except for a few open sections such as Lowville, 3rd line and Camp Sidrabene. CRAA planted Lowville Park several times in the past decade. But lack of volunteers has prevented more work from being done lately. Urban impacts and water taking round out the major threats. Anglers need to get organized and unified to repair our rivers or we will have less and less to fish for i nthe future! John

Sorry, but the fishway and dam are located on private land so access for viewing fish is not permitted. Best viewing spot is at Borbertown Bridge, just above Eglinton Ave. John

The lower river is open from Hwy 403 to the lake for Pacific salmon, brown and rainbow trout. You mentioned the CRAA website says it is closed. Can you let me know where (maybe we missed an update on the site), as the regs section on the clubs site states it is open...see link. http://www.craa.on.ca/regulations.shtml Thanks, John

The myth that Pacific salmon cannot reproduce in the Great Lakes has been perpetuated by many in the past (including a few TV hosts), but the concrete evidence they do indeed spawn in the wild has been growing since the 1980's. NY first found wild chinook fry in a few tribs in the early 1980's, but reproduction was limited. Fish have been adapting and baitfish changes have permitted fish to overcome the thiamine problem caused by alewife. While the Lake Ontario fishery still relys heavily on stocked chinook, studies done on Lake Ontario salmon estimate between 40 to 70% are in fact, wild fish. The adipose clipping program that started with the 2007 year class of chinook (stocked in May 2008) will answer this once and for all. MNR and DEC are studying the clip rates as we speak. Every chinook stocked since the 2007 (May 2008 stocking) year class is to be adipose clipped). Last year CRAA's creel of 2007 chinooks (shakers in 09) showed 46% wild, 54% clipped. This year from the creel we are running about 55% wild, 45% clipped for fish under 10 lbs. NYSDEC estimates the Salmoln River alone produces between 4-10 million wild chinook fry! This exceeds NY and Ontario's stocking combined. However, as was noted above, NY has not changed their chinook stocking rates since 1995. The recent NY stocking was down due to a poor egg hatch and MEA shared 100k extra fry they had. By 2012 we will have a much better understanding of wild and hatchery chinook and also which rivers they spawn successfully in. Most eastern GTA rivers have no stocking, but have solid runs of presumably wild chinooks. They also produce huge numbers of wild chinook fry, but MNR is so late sampling they miss the majority. Chinook parr leave rivers in May-June of the same spring they hatch (hatch is April-May). Most sampling starts in August with MNR. Only the minority chinooks that stay for the summer or a whole year are found in samples. Trout, Atlantic and coho juveniles tend to live in their natal river for two years before heading to the lake. The bottom line is wild chinook are very important, so are hatchery chinook. But balancing the numbers of adult chinook in relation to bait is the key for the future. The past two years have been equal to the best ever catch rates based on NYSDEC creel surveys that go back to 1984 (this goes for chinook and steelhead). And more and more lake anglers are releasing their catch, or using selective harvest! Eating a few salmon or a clipped steelhead can make a great meal. But letting wild steelhead swim and releasing many chinook and coho is the way to go with high catch rates to give the fish an opportunity to survive. Catch and release works very well if the fish are kept in the water (max 20-30 seconds out of water is best for survival). Chinooks caught and tagged in the lake are reported around the lake in fall spawning and CRAA's tagged steelhead that have been caught in the lake also return to the Credit the following year. It is a world class fishery where anglers can land tyee chinook, huge steelhead and now even some Atlantic salmon, all within a few km of the CN tower. The Georgian Bay-Huron chinook fishery crashed for multiple reasons, but the leading suspect is the combination of a baitfish crash (due to cold winters and zebra muscles reducing plankton...food for alewives) and massive natural reproduction that was not monitored or managed for. The Nottawasaga River was never, never stocked with salmon. But by 1995 it had a small but decent run of kings (few thousand). But the 1997-8 year class blew the doors off. The runs in 99-01 were well into 5 figures, possibly well over 30,000 fish. I went from hitting the odd chinook on float gear from 92-98 to 50-80 fish mornings float fishing the lower river (99-04). Crazy! Fish size dropped from 20-30 lbs to 8-12 pounds, then fish looked starved and the runs crashed all over in 05-06 era. Michigan DEC and MNR studies showed 85-96% of the Huron-Gbay chinooks were wild in 2001-2004. Fishing was great, but declining by 04 and by 06 was downright poor for salmon. In the 90's we rarely caught chinooks off Meaford-Collingwood until the middle of August. By 2002-04, 10-15 chinooks in the boat in July was common per trip. I hear lake fishing has been slightly better in Gbay and Huron this year from the past four years. So lets hope the bait and fish are recovering. On a positive note, perch numbers have rebounded and so have herring in Gbay/Huron. Maybe a shift in bait fish has occured? The studies continue. Good fishing! And take some time out and voluneer for a club like CRAA, MEA, Ontario Steelheaders, etc. John