scuro2

i dont think it matters that your daughter was 17 at the time she signed the contract since it was co-signed by a parent/guardian. these places bank on the fact that people dont read the contract when they sign up. it may be all sorts of bad things morally or whatever, but a contract is a contract... after it's signed is no time to complain about it. it looks like there is more than one lesson to be learned in all of this. don't take this negatively, i too got caught up in all of this once. chalked it up as lessons learned, paid it and went on with life.

No I don't take it negatively, no offense taken. Her mom did sign and yes a contract is a contract. I'm asking them to do the right thing. At a bare minimum at least put a real live person in front of us to listen, an then tell us that this is the way they run their business. I'm very interested to find out if the president will respond to the e-mail a week from now when he get back from his vacation, and if they run their business in such a manner I'm sure a few of you would like to know this.

 

I'd like to point out that this thread would have never started if any of the five GLF personal I had talked to, to date, would have given me a name of a person who had the authority to settle this. Most of them didn't know exactly how this end of their business operates. Every single one of them only offered their 1-800 as an possible solution. I asked point blank repeatedly...

I did get a hold of the president's e-mail and sent David Patchell-Evans and the local manager an e-mail today. Here it is.

 

Dear Sir and Ms XXXXXXX,

 

My teenage daughter's account went NSF. I did speak to Ms. XXXXXXX about this and she said she had no power to do anything and that I had to call the 1-800#. XXXXXXX at your 1-800# confirmed that GLF made 4 separate attempts to pull funds out of her account over a 4 week period. These attempts resulted in $160 dollars of bank charges. XXXXXXX thought this was a perfectly acceptable business practice, stated within her contract, even though my daughter was 17 at the time. XXXXXXX stated that in no way was it possible to reduce what GLF wishes to collect. Ultimately it will be I who will be responsible for these charges. I ask you kindly to do the right thing and set up an appointment for myself and my daughter so that we can talk face to face with someone who has the authority to resolve this.

 

Thank you,

 

XXXXXXX

 

Here is the response.

 

 

Thank you for your email. I am on holidays until August 30th. I will be working through many emails and will be back to you as soon as possible. I appreciate your patience in my reply.

 

Patch

 

 

I'll update you all in September and let you know if the president responds and sets up a personal meeting. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Your insights have been very helpful.

Your daughter and wife would have got a "PINK" copy of the contract when they signed it. Goodlife charges only one $25 according to my wife but even if they did charge twice it's still your bank that is charging you $160.00. Your issue is really with the bank. Next time you go in to the gym ask to talk to the club admin, seriously, the managers don't really know what's going on in that regard.

I'm not lying. Goodlife wants 2 x $25 dollars for it's "collection services". They made 4 attempts to withdraw money over a month. Since several GLF personal at the gym denied that a third and fourth attempts were done by GLF, and our first contact at the 1-800 also denied that they would make more than two attempts. A lot of time at the bank was spent to sort this out. It took two meetings but the bank did put a real person in front of us who listened and eventually agreed that the bank shouldered a little bit of responsibility here. She communicated with a manager who offered to knock off 3 of the charges and my daughter was very pleased that they did this. Had GLF only attempted to withdraw funds once or twice I may have pressed the point that she was a minor and probably got all of the charges removed.

 

I'm sure my daughter and wife did get a "pink copy" but you are talking about 17 year old. I'm sure I heard GLF personal state that they only ever attempt withdraw funds twice. We wanted to see the exact wording of the contract and asked the 1-800 lady but she said she couldn't mail me a copy...not even a blank form. She said we would have to go to a website and fill out an application to get this form. No real person from GLF with any authority will see us. I've made this request many times and they say the only way to deal with this is phone the 1-800 #. The difference between how the bank and GLF have handled this is stark. From my vantage point GLF is not concerned personally about it's customers and is being unreasonable.

An update

 

I went to the bank and they confirmed that the four NSF charges of $40 each were the result of four separate attempts by GLF to withdraw funds over a 4 week period. The local manager said she could do nothing and referred me back to their 1-800 #. The 1-800 lady confirmed that it was GLF who made the four separate attempts costing my daughter $160 dollars in bank charges. I asked if it was the right thing for GLF to do this and I got the contract and business spiel and it was within their right to make the 4 attempts. I asked if they could reduce the bill in any way and she said no. I asked if she could mail me the original contract and she said no I would have to go to a website to make a request.

 

I asked if it was GLF that added the two additional $25 dollar collection fees. As I understand what was said to me, neither the CPA nor any private collection agency is yet involved.

 

Total additional costs beyond missed payments, that can be attributed GLF or their actions = $210.00

 

My wife did sign the contract along with my daughter.

make your daughter find a job at a local grocery store and pay it off

Ironically she works at a grocery store and she will pay it off. The super irony here is that all of this happened because she wanted two bank accounts and she mistakenly transferred money out of the one account to make sure she wouldn't go NSF for Good Life. If nothing else this is a valuable life lesson about money, banks, and how companies don't always have your best interests in mind.

Your wife has no info on the CPA or the possibility of an outside collection agency with regards to outstanding GLF accounts? I would like to understand what exactly happened.

 

In talking to the two manager and the 1-800 lady, and after viewing the GLF bill, the first two NSF charges came through GLF's attempt to withdraw funds. The dates match up perfectly. To me that is acceptable.

 

But also on the GLF statement there are two charges of $25 dollars for "service charge external collection". These charges are on the same date as the nsf notice. Since I don't understand who is seeking this money nor the necessity of these charges, I find them unacceptable as do I find the 3rd and 4th attempts to withdraw cash from her account. She has no checks so it really looks like the final nsf are related to her GLF account.

 

I will go back to GLF today to look at the contract and I will go to the bank to gather info and see what can be done.

Ask to see the contract, it should not have been approved if there was no co-sign by parent/guardian. Wifey says that they only charge NSF once. Those other charges are not from Goodlife. Probably from your bank or CPA. Did she book any time with a personal trainer or tanning time that could also have incured a NSF?

There were 4 NSF charges. GLF tried to pull the money twice in the normal two week interval. Then whomever tried twice more. She has a "teenager" account at her bank so the extra NSF charges ain't from her bank. There is so little activity in there anyways. There is no tanning in this facility and she didn't use a personal trainer. She would go in with mom a few times a month.

 

Can your wife explain what the CPA actually does, if glf uses a private collection agencies, and if they do, how do they work the CPA? My assumption is that the CPA as a "helper" wouldn't be involved in the first stages of the game, nor would they be attempting to pull money directly out of my daughter's account. I am assuming that the CPA is more an arms length government body.

Wifey says that, as a 17yr old, she couldn't have joined without a parent/guardian co-signing. After attempting to withdraw and getting NSF she would have incured a $25 charge from Goodlife as well as whatever charge your banking institution charges for the NSF. After a second attempt that results in another NSF, Goodlife will not charge again and will not send the account to CPA until 75 days after the first NSF. This gives time for the member to catch up on payments directly at the Gym. After the CPA takes over, only the manager can reverse this process and that is unlikely unless she shows up at the Gym with enough cash to cover her debt. This will not, however, have any affect on what she now owes to CPA or your bank. Sounds to me like you're between a rock and a hard place.

What you say makes sense but you haven't explained where the #3 and #4 NSF charges came from. My daughter doesn't write checks and the only other purpose of her account was for caf food and other small items...so those charges are related to GLF. On her bank statement they are about 4 weeks from the first NSF, on the GLF statement and they both are charged on the same date. Why couldn't they have combined the fees and saved her one NSF? Better yet how about a mailed bill from this outside agency for their services? The lady from the 1-800 # said those attempts were not from GLF and I should go the CPA website to learn more?!?? Did that.

 

Did CPA charge her account directly for their involvement, did this come from head office ( their statement from today states, "head office collection is currently handling this member")... or was a private collection agency responsible for the 3rd and 4th attempt at withdrawing her funds from her account? GLF policy states they will only attempt to withdraw funds twice. Can your wife explain what happened? Regardless, why would GLF give their blessing to a system that shafts it's members with 4 NSF charges in less than a month? This is a teenager after all.

 

Finally, my wife said that she didn't sign any papers, I certainly didn't! She was the one who used to go with her. You are suggesting that my wife signed? The proof is in the pudding. Can I ask to see the contract at the gym?

Yup, don't know much about the CPA and what role they are playing in this. When we met the local manager he gave us a statement which states,"that Head Office Collections is currently handling this account". This would make it sound like GLF is handling it. The manager then told us we must phone 1-800-387-2524 if we had an issue with the bill. Is this a GLF 1-800 #? When we phoned the lady stated that is GLF's policy to only make two attempts at withdrawal so as not to swamp their clients with NSF charges. If so where did the extra two NSF charges come from? The lady at the 1-800# said that these charges were independent of the company and on the bill after each NSF, there is a charge for, "external collection". Are the 3rd and 4th attempts at collecting money from my daughter's negative balanced account the actions of a private collection agency, GLF, or the CPA? All very confusing...and any way you slice it...it stinks!

All I would hope to expect from GLF is for them to do the right thing. I have no problem paying the missed payments and the entire year membership. Just give us a call when the payment problem arises. If a client takes the time to come to your office and settle things then at least give them the opportunity to talk face to face with someone who can actually do something. Don't hide behind telephone ping-pong and don't play the pass the buck game.

 

Finally, if your collection agency is creating further NFS charges for your clients, then rethink your business with this agency...after all this is a people business.

Go talk to the Manager at the location. They fixed my wife and I up when we changed bank accts and forgot to switch the kids GF daycare fee to the new acct. They can address this in person. .

We did and the manager said the only way to settle this is to phone their 1-800 account #. He said they used to handle things locally but no longer. As it was explained to me, you can't actually sit down with someone who has the authority to intervene on your behalf.

My 17 year old daughter joined GF for a year and set up automatic bi-weekly withdrawals. She had insufficient funds and as a teenager she did what teenagers do best and that is to ignore the problem. GF attempted to withdraw the funds 2 twice and than canceled her account.

 

So much is acceptable.

 

The part that galls is that Goodlife, if I understand this correctly, have outsourced this operation to the Canadian Payment Association who made two separate attempts to withdraw $25 dollars for their services...and with both attempts further NSF charges came from her bank.

 

So for the two missed payments

$80 dollars in NFS charges from her bank (2 x 40)

$80 dollars in NFS charges for the two attempts by the agency to collect their fee for being involved (2 x 40)

plus $50 dollars in charges from CPA

 

As the GL phone representative explained it to me ( you can't meet anyone in person about accounts) the bank charges are appalling. When I questioned her about the CPA...she said well that is totally out of GF's hands. She explained that they instituted this system because customers complained that previously they didn't understand where the extra charges where coming from. As I research further the CPA is a nonprofit government agency to help settle collections. From my vantage point they are compounding a problem. Shouldn't collection fees come at the end of process and shouldn't one have the right to pay it instead of having them automatically attempt to pull it from your account? Also, if the original sum was NSF a simpleton could assume that the attempt to collect fees will also be NSF. Our bank is good to us so we can probably get some of the NSF fees back...but this seems grossly unfair and a scam. Perhaps I have misunderstood all this and someone has an answer?

That's a better price but the problem is it's a Globalstar phone.

It does work in Canada but the service is very, very sketchy.

Eddie has one at his camp on the Attawapiskat and it was great to have...but incredibly frustrating to use.

 

Iridium is waaaaaay better.

From what I heard all satellite phones have black out periods what is the difference between these two types of phones?

This sounds like something I would be interested in getting for our moose hunt...no cell coverage withing 2 hours...

 

3 of the 6 guys are 65 + years of age...one has had two double bypasses and is 74, the other two are ladden with cancer and one has a bag to pee in...would be certainly useful in case something was to happen.

 

Thanks for the link, solo.

Sounds like you need your own personalized RN for the hunt instead of a phone.

These guys are located in the Toronto area:

 

http://helloanywhere.com/index.htm

Looks great at $80 for the week...but than you have to use 20 minutes at $2.99 per minute for an extra $60 bucks.

May be going out on a trip far from civilization for a week. Would like the satellite phone as a backup and make one midweek call. Can you rent a phone and who would you rent it from?

Got a refurbished minnkota with a 2 year warranty from angling outfitters for $90. I am clueless about the battery...how do you recharge it? Are there some that are easier to charge?

Need an electric trolling motor and my preference would be as small as possible yet able to push a 12 ft tin boat around for 3-4 hours of trolling. Anyone name a good brand and model?

http://www.todaystrucking.com/news.cfm?intDocID=14037&CFID=1265779&CFTOKEN=99321162

...the Ontario Divisional Court has issued a unanimous decision ordering the Ontario Registrar of Motor Vehicles to comply with the "statutory obligation" to deny vehicle permits to individuals who refuse to pay their 407 ETR tolls. In their ruling, the Honourable Mr. Justice James D. Carnwath, Madam Justice Joan L. Lax and Madam Justice Katherine E. Swinton ruled that "the Registrar had no discretion to refuse plate denial" and therefore ordered the Registrar to begin denying plates, the highway operators said....407 ETR says that plate denial was in place while the highway was owned and operated by the previous Ontario government and the practice was a key part of the 1998 legislation allowing the sale of the highway to the company.

 

To sell the highway they had to introduce a bill since the highway belonged to the people( you and me). It was at this point that changes could have been made but instead Mike Harris gave the farm away. When you curse about the 407 make sure you invoke his name.

 

 

I dont want to find out and I am DONE sitting here here and listening to you all witch about this kind of crap -- but thats all you do- LETS GO people-- we need to stand up NOW before its to late.

Yeah lets get that Canadian tea party going so that we can get US funding for our "grass roots" "advocacy" group also.

 

The ignorant are played like fiddles.

 

If the beef is the 407, than remember it was Mike Harris and his "common sense" revolution that sold that government highway off to private interests. The people who tell you to vote for them because they will get rid of the shackles of government and cut red tape are the same people who agreed to the sale and the conditions of the sale. I don't know enough about the sale but I'd bet my last dollar that one of the conditions of sale was that our Ontario government would be the collection agency for those private interests.

Proper thickness for pike/muskie would be a 100 plus pounds and that would be stoopid to spool. Yozuri does a hybrid fluro which I have spooled at 20 pounds and a friend at 15 pounds, for a combo of troll and casting. You have to soak it in hot water when you originally spool it but no major complaints here. I'm used to braided and braid wins hands down when it comes to casting and accurately...but if stealth is a major factor that would be the way I would go.

Hi, I'm thinking of buying fortunespoons ...the glow in the dark ones anyone have any luck with them? in the past?

I don't know about the rest of you but glow in the dark always underproduces regular lures.

Great pictures I love the scenery pics as much as the fish pics. Great report. I'm sure you appreciated Leslie's efforts to deal with her pain and spend lots of time on the water with you.

Not much we could do. She noticed her ear when we landed in Thompson. The choice was to send her home or get some meds. She really wanted to go so we got meds that night. The pressure change of the plane bothered her, that and the jarring of the boat when you get out into a big open lake with waves. So after getting caught out in some big waves when the cold front moved in we took it easy and stayed out of big waves for the last two days. We still got to fish good water, there is a lovely river that empties out into Hale lake. We had some shots at big fish but never connected. She wasn't 100% percent but nor was she in pain. Still, when the fishing was hot she was right in there like a dirty shirt, and yes I was glad that she made the effort to fish with me, the boat is always a nicer place when she graces the bow.

http://www.dunlopfishing.com/

Dunlops is a lodge about 3/4's the way up the province of Manitoba on the little Churchill river. Lake Waskaiowaka is a classic pike lake roughly 21 by 11 miles long with a few other rivers and smaller lakes to explore thrown in. We saw no more than half of it and fished some small percentage of it.

 

The wildlife was remarkable.

 

Pelicans this far north...who knew?

 

..and for the first time I saw a bald eagle's nest with chicks in it.

 

There were also some awful purdy things to look at.

 

The lake is noted for the tall sand dunes at the south end of the lake. As it was explained to me the lake was given it's native name after these bluffs. Wish I would of had time to get down that far and climb them, they are supposed to be remarkable. Above is a pic of the dunes on our way out.

 

On to fishing. The lodge has 8 boats and never has more then 16 guests at one time. Jerry and his wife run a tight ship but you couldn't ask for more considerate staff. There is nothing that Jerry wants more than for you to catch big fish.

 

The place has been in existence for many years and when Jerry bought the lodge it was abandoned. My wife commented that they put their money into the right things: first class boats, fine linen and decent beds...and the best cook one could imagine so far north.

 

The first days were hot for this lake. Ice was out early and it stayed relatively warm. The weather had been extreme according to Jerry. The previous year "ice out" was in the second week of June. On our hottest day water surface temps were up to 70 degrees in some places. Jerry had never seen the season so far advanced and a lot of cabbage beds were already tired. My lesson for this trip was catching large pike in summer conditions on wind swept shorelines.

 

These were hot lazy days.

 

This lake was loaded with pike, classic walleye structure could be dominated by pike. We did catch a few walleye.

 

What was unusual about this lake was that the action didn't cut out with the heat but the big girls showed little interest during this time. Only the odd trophy was caught by the 16 guests but few had problems catching fish.

 

Those first few days we were masters of 2 to 2and 1/2 foot pike. Nothing over 33 inches those first few days.

 

What was also unusual about this lake is that even when it was hot pike just nailed lures. No hesitancy whatsoever. Compared to other pike lakes there was less T-boning and more aggressive chasing down of lures. Initially I was fishing plugs with double trebles but it was just too time consuming to take such a plug out of a pikes mouth that it had swallowed. I never lost so many lures on any trip. This was partly due to fishing wind swept shoreline but several times I would be fishing and the next second my line would go limp. My theory is that the larger pike simply inhaled the lure and leader and cut off the line above the leader.

 

We tried it all those first few days...going to deep spots on the lake.

 

Switching up lures which got us Leslie's 24 incher.

 

...and fishing after supper.

 

We were catching fish...just no big ones.

 

Eventually the weather broke and a cold front moved in. Here we are outracing a thunderstorm.

 

After the cold front moving in we still couldn't get a trophy in the boat.

 

The hope with the cooler weather was that we would find a trophy shallower...nada.

 

What I haven't mentioned till now is that Leslie was sick when we arrived. She had an ear infection. I offered to fish with a guide but she wanted no part of sitting in the cabin all day. We were still usually one of the last boats back each evening. But when the cold front moved in she couldn't take the pounding of the larger waves when you went into the open lake.

 

I did go out alone a few times but eventually got to know the cook who went out twice with me. We got into some serious action quick. We went out twice when the weather was stable in the evening. Usually we didn't go out till after nine when the kitchen was clean. We still got one or two hours of fishing in. The first night we had a 40 and 37 inch pike.

 

On our last day we stayed off the main lake until late in the day. Others were going in for dinner. I drove the boat out to some choice spots. Here is Leslie's 37 inch fish. Back at the lodge I tried to talk a few of the other guests to come out predicting that we would get at least a 40 incher.

 

The night was magical. By the time we got out there another party had already scored some big fish. In under two hours we had a two 40's a 37 and lower 30's. At times it was chaos like when we had 32 and a 40 on at the same time. The blood on this pike is his own after a treble buried itself into his thumb.

 

This is later in the evening and you can see that he cleaned himself up somewhat. Even though we caught lots those two nights we missed some big fish too. Lovely way to end the trip.

 

Before you knew it was all over and it was time to go.

WOW! Fantastic! My son is in Germany every month or two but he's usually around Sindelfingen...about 25 miles South West of Stuttgart. Really beautiful country, thanks for the pics.

He is not that far from all of this. The mountains would be 3 hours away...the lake 2 hours. Hiking Swiss mountains is very civilized. For every person there is a mountain at their speed. We hiked down. Some just hike up on the top and take the chairlift both ways. There is some damn serious climbing going on there. Saw a couple climb up a jagged rock faced peak in the shape of a finger with no gear except helmets. I prefer my mountains with cold beer on the top. My fav Swiss brand...Falken Hell beer!