I know it wasn't a shot at me and if it was then the 'shot taker' needs to wake up and re-read the whole post. In fact, if fisher12 and his folks are close to me and I can get them out fishing the the offer is open. Provided I can get out (problem 1 right now is boat boats are put to be for the season). The BEST advise I can give is this. Use a darter jig and a 4" grub in a natural colour for ANY and ALL decent size fish. Then again, if they have a boat and want to get out and or shore fish in my area it's a whole new game...