jedimaster

Sure in 5 years of kicking out all of the players and recruiting all of the AHL teams, the NHL may recover talent wise. But for the next 5 years its going to be mediocre hockey full of players that aren't good enough to be in the NHL, only good enough by default. Only a very small percentage of the AHL players will ever see an NHL game for no reason other than they are not good enough. There is a reason Kadri isn't in the NHL yet and that's because he is NOT good enough. Not even good enough to make the Leafs. The Marlies are one of the better teams in the AHL and he is one of the better players on the Marlies... so what does that tell you. It tells me one of the better players on one of the best teams isn't good enough to play for one of the worst NHL teams.

I am not trying to pick a fight or pick on the AHL, its competative hockey, no doubt, and they play with heart. I am just pointing out that these guys just aren't the best of the best and that is what the NHL is. Thats what I want to see. The best of the best.

The only roadblock I see is the nhl owners unwillingness to negotiate back and fourth to find a middle ground. The nhl succeeds on the blood, sweat and skill of the players. I say put every club up for sale and bring in a fresh crop of owners. I don't think there will be a deal done. But I hope one side or the other cracks and pronto. I don't care what side cracks as long as a deal gets done. I'll happily watch the world juniors but watching ahl is so boring.

Who do you think would have a better grasp on what would affect a particular lake or watershed? A provincial govt that is accountable to those in the immediate vicinity of that watershed or those that are creating blanket regulations across an entire country. What works for BC won't necessarily work for Ont or NS. There is now removal of science or environmental from the process. All of that still remains as it always has with the provinces and municipalities. If you have ever dealt with any water project the most strict constraints are within the municipal level. The federal paperwork is just a rubber stamp. The regulations were loose and for the most part irrelevant and almost always overlap.

Another thing to consider is who is more reachable and accountable to you as a fisherman? The feds, provinces or muni's? I have always had betted luck getting results and response from smaller govts.

I am not trying to divide anyone but to say that the waterways are now unprotected is false. The provinces already regulate the waterways that the feds were also regulating. The overlap in paperwork, bureaucracy and waste is amazing. Not all lakes and rivers travel between provinces or countries. If you notice I did say that those that do should be regulated federally. In fact there are still lakes and rivers that are regulated federally. Did you know that there was consultation with the provinces to what lakes and rivers were kept in federal hands? Also nova scotia did make any requests to keep there lakes and rivers under the arms of the feds. In fact all of the provinces were consulted with and not one asked for any additions to the list.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/224737-ottawa-to-ns-cry-me-a-river

Once I find the actual list if there are some lake that I think should be federally protected that aren't I'll be contacting the provincial govt to ask questions. This is truly something that I think falls in the lap of the provinces. Nt for everything but for many of them yes.

Personally I don't think the fed should have much to do with certain bodies of water. Some that go between provinces, or countries yes, but ones that are contained within a province should be regulated at the provincial and municipal level. No different than land, roads sewage systems, water treatment, electricity etc... if you have ever had to deal with water development the same things you need to do provincially uou have to de federally and in many cases also on the municipal. So to say that the waters are now unprotected is outright false and blatantly liberal propaganda. Now one could argue some things should be in the hands of feds versus provinces of course but why in both? It"s jist extra fat imo.

Well the longterm looks mediocre with daytime temps above zero for the next week but the nighttimes look like crackin temps..Any reports on Ice on the back lakes? Post your area, pictures and ice if you have, lets keep everyone christmas spirits up with some ice...

Are you reserving seats of cortisone?

All of the major leagues have had lockouts and strikes. NFL, MLB, NBA etc... This is a lockout, no different than the others.

The owners make an offer and say its there best and want to negotiate

The players counter that offer

The owners reject it without reviewing it, they want a yes or no

The players wait for a new offer

The players counter

The owners reject it without reviewing it, they want a yes or no

The players wait for a new offer

Evenutally the Owners will have to actually start negotiating or they will need to cave and make an offer that the players will accept. Either way that will take a long time, because the owners show no sign of wanting to negotiate a deal, and the players are going to keep waiting for a good offer. I mean its not like the owners are actually willing to negotiate for real. If they were then this would have been signed sealed and delivered long ago.

No risk play hockey. No talent needed. Players are the sole reason fans buy tickets.

x2

NHL players take risks every time they lace up the skates, ask all the guys with concussions. People WANT to pay to see the BEST. Thats why they get paid so much. It has nothing to do with who the owner is. You could swap out all of the billionaire owners for millionaire owners, or groups of pension fund owners and people would still pay to see the BEST play hockey. Swap out the BEST players in the world for second rate players and people won't pay nearly as much... That what the AHL is. People aren't paying 500 dollars a ticket to see the AHL. Same reason why the CFL is not so popular. Some may like second rate talent, but the majority want to see the very best.

CFL versus NFL

Olympics versus Panama Games

MLB versus AAA

NHL vrs AHL

NBA versus D league

People want to pay the big bucks to see the best talent. The little baby league's will have there strong supporter's and good for them, but why begrudge The Best of Best, when any single one playing in the little leagues would sell there soul to the devil to be in the big leagues.

i think the mear fact that there is a collective bargaining agreement means there is collective bargaining. If you want it so the Player's have no and aren't part of the collective bargaining process, then you need to bancrupt the NHL, and start over, have open tryouts and hire players as staff. Of course, then you have to determine does the NHL as a whole employ the players or do the teams? If its the NHL then the league would determine who is in and then there could be a draft for every team. If its the teams then unless there is some sort of agreement between all of the franchises then you would need to have some sort of agreement on what sort of caps they want to impose on salary etc... now of course when you have that many players and that much money involved there will eventually be a union formed between players in of all the teams. Then there will need to be a collective agreement and terms so that every player is treated the same between teams.

Then of course there are going to be poor teams that won't be able to compete with salaray so you will need to have some sort of max or minimum, perhaps a profit sharing or luxury tax between rich and poor teams. Or I guess you could just scrap the 10 crappy teams. There is no way to run a league the size of a pro sports league without some sort of collective agreement in place. Labour laws etc... all dictate that. It's just how the beast is. You want the best players, every team wants an edge to win, they WILL pay as much as they need to to try and get the best players. You need to keep it under control so you need contracts etc...

As it is right now. The league bargains with the players associate to come up with a CBA. Thats just how it works or breaks. Like it or not.

The players offered an 8 year CBA with an opt out at 6, the league offered 10 years with an opt out at 8. To me that is REALLLY close. The league should come back to the PA's offere with a 9 year with an opt out at 7. But they won't Bettman doesn't want to negotiate. We wants to write the deal up from start o finish take it or leave it.

To me that sounds very unreasonable.

Think about it this way. You will work in your career for 30 or 40 years. The NHL its 6 years(well 5.6 but lets round up...

If you were part of a negotiation process would you want to lock terms for 50 or 60 years? That seems unreasonable to me. How can anyone possibly predict where the NHL will be in 10 years. Will there be contraction, expansion, how many teams will be relocated or bancrupt in that time? It doesn't matter what the salary cap is or how long the deals are, some teams will never make money. To me it makes sense to match longest contract term with the term of the CBA.

9 year CBA with 6 year opt out,

6 year max contract with 9 year max if resigned as a ufa to the same team.

Those number fall in between what the NHL offered and what the PA offered. Thats what negotiating is, finding a middle ground that both parties can live with.

No different than one of us selling a fishing real.

What if I put an Ad up for a Shimano Stella that said

NIB Shimano Stella STL1000 FE 700 dollars willing to negotiate - OBO

You emailed me and said I'll give you 600

I emailed you back and said no its 700 take it now or I am going to pull my 700 off the table and raise the price to 750 dollars and I won't let you use it until next summer.

Chances are good you would tell me to piss off.

Now this is afishing thread so this should keep it alive for a while.

I have negotiated back fourth in many places. If an employer was negotiating with me and said here is the deal take it or leave it. I would leave it. That's not negotiating at all. And I agree, I just don't get why people try and compare pro sports to normal life. When the cbc comes to your work to put you on national tv doing your job and millions of people pay to watch you work then I would also support you in your negotiation for a contract.

I am all psyched up for ice fishing this year, gonna go for some splake and lakers for sure over the xmas break.

Honestly it depends on what you want to do on the ice. Do you like to go ice fishing and shoot the crap with the boys while you watch your tip ups, or you do want to drill hole after hole and jig aggresively. I tend to be happy sneaking a wobbly pop on the ice and getting out with the boys. I used to have a vexilar but I didn't use it that much, although it did work really well. I bought a 5x dsi portable this year and plan to take it out with me this year. I am not so serious about ice fishing though. Just out for the fresh air and fun. If I was as serious into ice fishing as bass fishing I would have a vex or a marcum as well as an aqua view for the clear lakes.

I am not sure why the Owners keep calling it negotiations. Negiations are usually two way. Side A makes an offer, Side B counters that offer, Side A counters again and so on until a deal is met somewhere in the middle. So far all I have heard from Bettman and the owners is here is our offer, take it or leave it, we will not entertain any counter offers, if you refuse our offer then the deal is off the table.

Right or wrong, Lockout vrs Strike, good deal or bad deal, that is no way to negotiate. I don't think anything is gonna happen until next year after the season is lost... Hopefully by then Bettman and Fehr are both googling workopolis looking for new jobs. There is just too much bad blood between the Players and Bettman it seems.

I have zero optimism now. I was following allong on a daily basis, not that i could get away from it, as thats all they talk about on the radio and on TV but I guess this is it. Put a knife in her. Gretzky also said that a deal woul dbe done and no games would be lost. He is living in a dream world unfortunatly.

Has everyone been following allong? Wow I was actually optimistic when I heard Fehr tonight. Then I heard Bettman come up and say flat out. "We will make a proposal and they either take it in whole or there is no deal". Then he goes on to say how the owners are trying to negotiate. That doesn't sound like negotiating to me. Oh well. I guess that is the death blow, no NHL for the year. Sounds like decertification is where its going to head, I guess I gotta start following the Raptors.

Does this mean I can remove the NF tag on this thread?

works in youtube. they do that because if you watch a video thats embedded the person who published the video doesn't make any money from you watching it. Its an option when you publish a youtube vid.

This one is pretty sweet too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS4RKoRyTik

The limbs look lie they can be to strong either but the deisgn looks pretty sound. Very cool setup none the less.

Ok, so I am on my way to go pickup my new crossbow...After much deliberation I am getting a carbon express covert SLS. Why not an excalibur... Well for 599, I get 355 fps and a much smaller albeit heavier frame. Anyway, this thread isn't about me. its about this awesome video I saw on the interent while looking at reviews on my new crossbow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSjCY2kGyfI

My outdoors card expired this year, as does my fishing validation for the year, so I bought the outdoors card renewal, the 3 year sport fishing and 3 year small game tag. They all show up on the e-license but for whatever reason it still says on it that the e-license is not valid unless accompanied by a valid outdoors card.

Pretty happy with my ardent edge baitcaster.

We will see....