crosshairs

Good evening all, i see there is alot of questions and personal opinions mentioned in here. Alot of these questions were answered at the lake nipissing summit, which a report will be completed shortly for everyone to view. As mentioned by many of the people at the summit, NFN numbers (catch) hold 100% more weight than the numbers created by the OMNR by their "creel census". we have 20 Commercial fisherman on 10 boats, I see them 4 times a week, 80 % of them must drive by my house with their boat when going out, they are audited, catch forms are mandatory not like the joke of Creels. So if tested in court the only numbers in question are the anglers numbers. Everything NFN does is well documented, they are preparing to have a very very loud voice in the management of lake nipissing. Tourist outfitters at the summit were the ones to question the creel, also they had great concerns reguarding the enforcement of angers regulations. CO's on the lake are unheard of were the comments from an outfitter. Pretty scary. And I don't blame the OMNR, they are doing what they can as we are. Now anyone who has ever speared walleye for any period of time can clearly tell a female from a male. Females do spawn at a later age than males, so yes size does help, also depending on the timing the females don't sit on the shoals until they are ready to spawn. They will stage in a little deeper water until they are ready. The actions a female make are also different than the males, the males are high strung scurrying around looking for a female, while the females are lazing around with their stomachs bloated waiting to release the eggs. Also when a female is ready she will splash around and you will see anywhere from 3-10 males around her spawning her out.

The regulations are enforced by the first nation. Justice circles have been held, in the past 2 years 9 people have gone (for moratorium infractions) and none have re-offended. Their enforcement is out 4-5 times a week, audits are completed on fisherman and their catch reports, restaurants, markets etc send us info on numbers they are purchases and from who. We are a small community, everyone see's everything and its surprising how many people call in to report infractions. Nets cost about $150 per panel, plus 3-5 days shipping. When they don't follow the regulations their gear is lifted out of the water and they need to pay to get them back. The cost is compareable to new. 5 nets = $750 fine. They seem to want to be compliant when they are loosing their gear. On another note about invasive species, we have caught black crappie near Jocko point, as well as what appears to be a mirror carp. Massive scales and most were missing, looked more like 80% of body was this leathery skin. Again if anyone has questions about the commercial fishery or the history please feel free to ask. I don't get on here alot but will try to answer what i can.

I'm sure something is going to come out of it. The area mayors were suprised that a lake bring in $100 million a year and the OMNR is budgeting $70,000 a year compared to Nip First nation putting in $300 000 a year and receive zero from the $100 million. I would suspect they are going to take a united approach to get more monies spent on this very important resource. Just a side note. The First nation began their efforts in 2003, and every year the FWIN has shown a steady growth in numbers until 2009. Something "new" had to happen around this time. The netting has always been there (commercially and not)and the numbers of commercial fisherman have lowered since 2003. Previous to 2003 there were more fisherman, plus they were allowed to set as many nets as they wanted. Now they have a max number and there are less of them. If anything the population should be growing. You can see some of this info on the OMNRs status of the fishery report. Have a great day all. BTW the bite has been on around the mouth and in the french.

This is actually a pretty complicated question. There are so many variables that would change the outcomes. Anyhow most First Nations signed a treaty (except Wikwemikong terrible spelling)they are unceeded. The remainder of First nations signed treaties. I belong to Nipissing First nation, which is a member of the robinson huron treaty. In our treaty the first nations kept all fishing and hunting priviledges, where other treaties sold their hunting and fishing priviledges. Again using nipissing as an example, they have proven through the courts that they commercially fished where the other first nations within the treaty area have not. Now treaty boundaries are not exactly mapped out, the omnr have their veiws where they are but nothing has been agreed upon by the FN's. It is pretty complicated. Also there are political bodies who also look out for FN's issues. These bodies have also been working on INTER -treaty harvesting agreements. What these agreement do is allow someone from another treaty area to practice their priviledges in a separate treaty area. A good example would be if I married someone from another treaty area she could ask permission and sign a harvesting agreement to be in the area. Then to complicate things even more, treaty areas where mapped out by governments not FN's and this error has brought out areas called Traditional use areas. An example would be Nipissing members didn't just live on lake Nipissing, they wintered as far north as Lake Nipigon and went as far south as OKA. We have reasearched this quite extensively through the archives, so our traditional area would be an area from lake nipigon right into quebec. These traditional areas have been challenged by government and the FN's have won. Anyways, he should research what their treaty says and go with it. When harvesting in another FN's territory it is only respectful to contact them and see what regulations they may have on their members and get them to put it in writing that they acknowledge he will be in their territory.

I don't think we will be as bad as last year. I seen a picture from last march 30th, and a farmer was plowing his fields in verner and dust was rolling. Also boats were out on the lake april 5th, as of yesterday there is still a couple feet of ice.(before the rain and thunder)All depends on rain and runoff I guess.

Thus far it is the community driving everthing that has been done to date. On top of that, treaty Rights are not individual rights. They are cummunal in nature, what one person does has affects on everyone in the community. So I can see some huge steps being made because this is community driven. The community has actually said that some regulation must go on the spearing, and I am assuming discussions are not in place on that topic. And yes it is very complicated, but also very intersting. The true test of the First nations laws will be when the courts recognize them (as in BC where some FN community fishing laws are actually in the Federal Fisheries Act, then larger fines or incarceration will help deter the few bad apples from breaking their own laws. Our regulations can be modified quite quickly 4-6 months while the crowns turn around time is approximately 2 yrs, if I'm not mistaken. I'll be gone for a while, kids have hockey all this weekend, and march break so I'll be outta town but take care all, if time permits I'll try and peek in.

Suggestions to OMNR's approach, well here are a few I personnaly feel couldn't hurt.(and don't bite my head off please these are just my thoughts) 1. Work with the First Nation istead of distancing themselves. 2. Help train their fisheries officers to be full fledged CO's 3. They need to get a better handle on #'s of anglers and Fish being caught 4. Limit the amount of ice shacks allowed/or none at all 5. Negotiate with the First nation,eg. every 2nd year lake is closed all winter in exchange for no spearing or maybe no netting that same year. 6. Have a fee for commercial ice huts and that money be put into lake nipissing eg(100 commercial huts x $500 = $50,000)lol almost the mnrs budget for the lake. The OMNR just needs to start thinking outside the box and get a little creative. I think the omnr legal expertise needs to ease up and let the grassroots people do some ground breaking work. If my First Nation (who fought court battles for fishing, fist fights with wardens, constant finger pointing) can get together and be where they are at with Fisheries management, I'm sure all people around lake nipissing can get through some personal battles and do what is right for the lake. I'll try and get on here tommorrow for a little bit again. again Thank you all for having open minds and being curious about this very sometimes heated topic. Have a good evening everyone.

I agree that this is a very good discussion, and everyone has an opinion. You have to respect people who stand up for what they beleive in whether they are right or wrong, they have the kahoonies to do so. Please remember this is just my take on what I see, the opinions expressed are not those of the First Nation. The lake has always been on up and down cycles, up until recently the spawning stocks have been increasing for the past 13 years. Then wamm last year and this year a sharp decline in spawning stock. What caused this??? Early ice out last year allowed for a longer spearing season, since the opening of the fish market perhaps more anglers feel the need to keep those slot size(remarks I have heard at sons hockey games, tim hortons), environmental changes? Personnally I feel we are naturally in a down cycle, but the other factors listed each had it's own little part to play. In past Years the First Nation sat on stuartship councils and the likes but just like on the internet people can only take so much finger pointing, then you realize it is hopeless to try and participate. So the answer to your question HeadHunter about relationships with other shareholders is basically the same as it always has been the "us and them" mentallity. The First Nation has been left out of the game from the beginning. Not just in Fisheries but forestry and mining and all Natural Resources. The First Nation's have been involved in all parts of these industries, but when government decideds to regulate and make management plans First Nations are left out of the equations. Please bare with me I am going somewhere with this. I'll stick with the lake issue, how can one of the biggest users of the lake be ignored when trying to create a sustainable plan? Of course sustainability is going to be questioned their plans were for anglers and forgot to include The First Nation. First Nation people used to guide for bear hunting, then came bear management units now all areas are given to tourist operators. Again the First Nation has no place to continue or participate in their guiding activities. This is why the "us and them" mentallity still exists. And I can't see this disappearing anytime soon, the only economic return the first nation see's from the lake is the commercial fishing. If a first nation member wanted to build a tourist camp, it would be hard as we can't get loans/mortgages to build anything on reserve because banks cannot reposes anything on the First nation. Anyhow, the First nation I think is worried about lake nipissing,their own fishery, and the protection of their treaty rights not the tourist outfitters.

"puts back" was just refering to the money they put into enforcement and assessment. They are doing alot of work with the Lake Sturgeon, musky and Bass. I know in the past they were doing alot of ice out trap netting and gathering data on the musky, bass and Northern pike. We all know not enough money is put into lake nipissing, I think the OMNR needs to start looking outside the box. The First Nation has fisheries officers out on the water 4-5 days a week, why not use them to help with angler enforcement and works the other way as well. Here is 2 organizations trying to do the best they can for the lake with limited funds, it's time to put the past behind them and work together.(alot of history between the 2) Everyone has the same goal in mind for the lake, healthy productive lake for all future generations to enjoy. Just a side bit of information, if the lake nipissing fishery crashes so does the treaty rights of all NFN community members(commercial and angler). So the community has alot at stake, they are determined to get this done right. Not all set nets, actually a small minority actually set nets. Most are anglers like the rest of us, just want to bring their kids out and maybe catch a little snack. Whether fish are caught or not I feel it is time well spent. Teaching all our youth is the key to the lakes future. All biases must be put aside and both sides must be willing to give. Have a great night folks.

You are correct, that has been there most effective tool. Nets being confiscated seems to really catch all commercial fishermans attention.

Nipissing First Nations Regulations only apply to Nipissing First nation members. Nipissing has proven in court that they have always commercially fished nipissing. If other status fisherman are seen they are reported to the omnr, and then it is upto the ministry to find out if they are fishing for sustenance or commercially. If an NFN member is found netting outside the rules depending on the severity of the offence it may range from a warning down to a meeting with the justice circle. (the justice circle is made up of elders, compliant commercial fisherman, Anishnabek Police sevices, general concerned community members.) Here the person admits their guilt, explains to their peers why they chose to do what they did, and are assigned a penalty. Penalties range from community service, donations of fish to elders and the food bank, attending educational sessions on various topics, writing letters of appology to the community, suspension of fishing permit, and the use of the communities fedarally ispected fish processing facility will be off limits for a set time frame. Remember this is a very small community, and the embarassment faced by the guilty party and their families to the community is quite a strong tool. Recently I have heard that Chief and Council are also looking into having set fines for each possible offence. We have to remember, that until the communities law is challenged in court the courts won't recognize these laws. Hence the justice circles.

What we do know is we've been gill netting lake nipissing commercially for centuries (documented by the jesuits). More recently there are actually less people netting, more regulations on them and a quota set in place. For the fishery to change so dramatically in the last 10-20 years what has happened differently to negatively impact the fishery? The commercial fishery has changed, but for the better. Are more anglers on nipissing? We don't know there is no accurate data on how many anglers or how much fish is being caught by them. Is there more Tourist outfitters on the lake? I don't know, but everything was fine until around 2003-2004 and the commercial fishery prior to 2003 was bigger then it is now and had been for centuries. Something new happened but what was it? More Anglers, a New native community netting on nipissing (treaty area is quite large), environmental changes. Not sure, but Nipissing First Nation is the ones finding and leading the research into other avenues while the OMNR sits back and reviews their work. A Pretty bleak picture is being painted by the "Managers of the Lake", this is why the First Nation is now taking their stance.

The biologist i speak has been here from the begining and is still here. He can be contacted at 753-2922. His name is Richard Rowe, he was the omnr biologist for lake nipissing prior to working with the first nation. Chief and Council has lowered the quota twice on his recommmendations. For the laws and management plan to be legal or defensible in court the science must be sound and follow principals recognized globally. What impact does Tourist operators have on the First nation? What revenue does the First nation generate from all the people visiting and fishing on lake nipissing? Theey receive nothing, but put the most back into the lake. Nipissing First nation is taking a stance, and are going to be either Managing the whole lake or at the very least be in a co management agreement with your Government for all Management decisions on lake Nipissing.

The First Nation has created it's own manegement for the commercial fishery. They have a biologist on staff who has created a manegement plan for their fishery, they have established their own enforcement unit and assessment unit. Until this happened the netting was unregulated. This is voluntary, the first nation can fish commercially with out interference from the government. They are using a management system which is recognized world wide (scientifically defensable in courts), which includes OMNR numbers of angler harvest. This money isn't used to couter act gill netting but used to ensure it is being done in a sustainable manner. The First Nation is doing it by the book because they are ready to be challenged, their numbers, management system and assessment. If we are to look at all the facts who's fishery is actually the regulated one? The one where I've fished 20 yrs and never seen a CO or the one where the fishery officers are doing audits on you and your catch every couple days. The money just isn't there for the OMNR to properly manage this resource. How much tourism dollars are brought into the area from lake nipissing, just put 10% of the tax dollars collected from that revenue towards the fishery and I'm sure its more than the 70,000 the government puts into it now. Just my thoughts, I don't get on here to often but if there are questions I'm more than willing to try and answer them if I can. Take Care all.

Not justifying, just stating as with any commercial fishery there will be bi-catch. And it will be disposed of. The volumes caught are to small scale for larger industries such as pet food etc. Ideas on how to use these fish are welcome I'm sure. Some community members can suckers, and make them into patties but this is a only a few people.

The non desirable species you speak of are Herring, sucker, Fresh water drum (sheephead)and catfish. The herring have a mite that makes them illegal to sell to public. Even the perch have been hard to sell for some because they have a stone (calcium build up) within the meat. Personnally I eat perch all the time and only came across this once. As for how are they disposed of, just like any commercial fishery they are thrown out. Great lakes and oceans they are dumped right back in the lake, here some are put in the lake others are dumped out. Some fish are given to community members. The Fisherman have sales for walleye,pike,whitefish,some perch,silver bass.

As I have stated on many posts before all the First nations fish are accounted for. The handfull of those who maynot record the proper numbers or donot report any are all taken into consideration and estimates are added to cover those fish. Why would the first nation spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to protect the resource and then make up numbers. Come on people. As for the Moratorium happening when the ice is still on, last year people were driving by boat and spearing at lonely island by april 6th. The moratorium runs from April 1st through May 10th when little if any walleye are seen still on the shoals. Again if they wanted PR they would do a fish hatchery. Fish hatcheries Lets see, we'll take a hundred thousand eggs from Nippising fish (that were gonna end up on the spawning bed anyways)put them in a hatchery and when they hatch lets put them back in nippissing so the natural ones(which are bigger) can eat them. Hatcheries are for give and take lakes. Nipissing is a very productive lake. And there are no simple solutions, the first nations picture though looks alot better than the angling side. Sure they may take the most fish but the FNation is spending triple the amount than the ontario government into the lake, plus making all the decisions to manage themselves voluntarily while the ontario government cuts back on assessment and even cancelling creel surveys where they get the data for numbers of fish caught by anglers. No one even knows how many anglers are out there per year, let alone how many fish being caught. The First Nation has a pretty good grasp i think on the 15 or so Commercial fisherman they have. The compliance rate if tested will benefit the first nation.North shore is terrible for docks so 80% of all boats are using the couple of boat launches which makes it pretty easy to monitor. These are just some facts, not the Tim Hortons retorhic that some here feel the need to spew. I would like to know what has any other organization put into lake nipissing? Not spending on meetings or PR hatcheries but money actually going into lake nipissing. Nipissing First nation has an on reserve population of approximately 1000 people and they are spending lets say $300,000/yr which equals $300 per person/yr, perhaps all communities on lake nipissing put in $300/person to properly manage this resource.

I was commenting on Bernie's comments, thats the reason the dates are also when the ice is still on to stop that from occuring???? It does help, because the majority of the time the west end and north shore near the reserve the walleye actual begin spawning under the ice, if nets are there they won't see the shoals.

I don't want to point fingers but just give a little information. NFN places regulations on their members. Create an assessment team, develope an enforcement unit, drops quota 2 years in row, now community would like to see spearing addressed, as well as more enforcement. Daily catch forms collected, monitored and audited for the approx 15 commercial fishing boats. All done VOLUNTARILY. The first nation doesn't have to regulate it's members. OMNR puts in place slot size, extend fishing further into march, cancel winter creel, have a budget 1/3 the size of the first nations for lake nipissing, and when asked to help during moratorium no where to be seen, minimal assessment work.(not their fault, not given the proper resources to properly manage the lake). The picture doesn't look to good. The First Nation looks like it's the one with the properly regulated and use actual numbers, enforced fishery while the "regulated fishery" cancels the creel where they get their estimates and have a budget a third the size of this little first nation with a total population of 2000 and only 1000 live on reserve. I think this First Nation has played their cards right and put themselves in a very good position for some serious negotiations with the "regulated fishery". From what I understand Nipissing First Nation is also doing great work with other First Nations here and in other provinces. Netting of Nipissing has been occuring for centuries, as well as angling. More recently there are actually less people netting and they are restricted so why now all of sudden the decline? Not sure but my personal feelings are something is happening in the lake bigger than the netting and angling, so all sides need to look at this togther and come up with some solutions and creative ideas. And we all know the commercial netting will stop when all commercialization on the lake stops. So lets get creative and work together. Thank you all for your time.

Last year the NFN patrols were out in their boat by april 9th, and alot of the smaller tributaries, hay narrows etc are open water and have spawning walleye. That why the date was extend from april 10th back to april 1st, and when may 10th comes around there is very little activity on the spawning beds, the usual couple males waiting for a stragler. As for the ice, nets are still set under the ice and along spawning shoals. PR is not what they want, if thats all they wanted they would do a hatchery.

There are some commercial guys who are selling non certified fish (not cleaned in a CFIA inspected facility) and those who aren't even part of the program. The non certified are counted, and the "poachers" fish are accounted for and are included in the quota. The First nation has a really good handle on the number of fish being caught, that is the main part of their whole purpose. They even publish their numbers, I beleive they had went over the quota alittle this past year. It was published by choice not need. There are approx 20 boats, and the enforcement are out approximately 4-5 shifts per week. To be eligible for unemployment stamps fish must be purchased by the first nation. The data set for lake nipissing has shown an increase in population for the past 13 years in all age classes, last year the numbers dropped off the map. Not just one age class (which could explain who was catching that size) but all age classes. This is whats being looked into at this time. As for the age old fight of treaties and equal rights, these were government to goverment agreements produced by the crown to share the lands we lived on. There was no wars because of these treaties, and for the comment about stopping our subsidies, these are al part of the ttreaty as well as resource sharing which hasn't occured in canada yet. There is a site GLIFWIC which is a first nation run operation like ours except a much larger scale and funded throught the US revenue sharing agreement. I beleive it is in michigan. Very interesting site. Take care all, I might not be for a couple days. New born in the house. lol

The vested interest the First Nation (we) have is that if the walleye population plummets so do the treaty rights of us as well as our future generations. If the stocks of fish are proven to be in danger, there is case law where communities have lost their right. As for what powers cheif and council have over band members, the treaty was not signed by all us band members, it was signed on behalf of a community which makes these rights cummunal rights. The community wanted action done, they voted and now there are laws and regulations in place. All must keep in mind this is a work in progress, every year the regulations have been updated to close loop holes found, and to deal with new issues that arise. A biologist being hired, regulations, enforcement, assessment work being completed is all benefits to the lake. Quota was reduced this year due to our FWIN results, if quota is reduced again price will go up again. Less fish doesn't mean less $$$ for the fisherman. All this work is being done because the community wanted it, no outside influence had a say in any of this work being completed by the first nation. Assessment work being done is not just on walleye (like the ontario government was doing) but on Pike, Bass, Musky, Whitefish to get a better picture of what the whole ecosystem is doing. I see no reason to shut this thread, this is how information is shared and how people learn. There is nothing wrong with questions. In the end we all want the same thing, a healthy productive lake to enjoy for many generations. Take care all.

Jim C There are alot of places that advertise lake nipissing walleye, and smoke shops along the highway that have them. The certified fish you are looking for all come with a certification label, and the restuaraunts who are selling the walleye will have a banner, or some other form of this certification label on display just Ask for it. On the reserve there is just R&J's meat market, another located at the water front in north bay is the old cheif fish market. All the fish sold at these 2 establishments are sustainably caught, and cleaned in conditions that meet CFIA standards. All fish are iced immediately when they come out of the water. They supply the restaurants that have certified lake nipissing wallaye. The other locations who cannot provide proof of the certification label are not cleaned or caught under the same conditions. Some are on the back of pickup trucks, others on plywood etc, are the fish iced?? no one knows, how long were the nets in the water, how long were the fish out of water prior to going to establishments there are alot of unknowns with the un certified fish. As for the certified, the fisherman have regulations, and there are quality expectations they must meet. I see an establishments name mentioned earlier about walleye cheeks etc, I'll just say if people seen where these fish were cleaned the health units would be getting calls.

The orange floats you are refering to were probably from the cache bay pike derby that happened recently. They were run from the sturgeon river along the south side of pickerel rock. I also seen some around the bald rocks area. At the depths around that area the floats from the nets would be all across the top. The nets generally are 6 feet wide, and are made to be suspended not sit on the bottom. Odds are there were no nets there. The only commercial fishing done is by Nipissing first nation, who have a their own management plan, biologist, enforcement, and assessment teams. If I can fiqure out how to put pictures on here, I\ll post the pictures of the sturgeon we tagged last week in the sturgeon river. We inserted radio tags into 12 mature sturgeon, and will be tracking them for the next 5-6 years to establish patterns and areas of the lake they use. We have also pit tagged 300 plus juvenile sturgeon in the past couple years. Anyhow I'm off topic, but good luck fishing to all.

Jocko On another note, if you haven't gotten smelt yet my son and I caught a crap load sunday night. This was about the 3rd night in arow. I've been catching them for years and never seen this many. My boy filled our 5 gallon pail within 15 mins, it was crazy.