Photoz

The LAST time (and I do mean THE LAST TIME) I loaned my auger, about 10 minutes later the guy brings it back over . . . "Gee . . . this thing just doesn't seem to cut into the ice . . . . ?" He was right . . . gollee e e e e . . . . I guess I musta wore it out cutting about 6 holes a half hour before? Lesson learned . ... if ya wanna fish, don't expect others to finance your excursion, eh? Get the proper equipment . . . . then go fishing? About $60.00 will get you a decent auger!

Just makes me wonder when anybody else (when you can find one) who is selling 'em is asking $659.00? Even e-Bay is floggin' 'em for close to $600.00 Canadian? My advice to ANYBODY thinking about a Vex . . . if this one is brand new in the box . . . . . at THAT price, it'll likely be long gone by now, it it ain't . . . . GRAB IT FAST!!

As far as bein' 'scared' of it . . . . when it comes to electronics, I'm 'thick as a brick,' but after watching the instructional video several times, it took me 5 full minutes to find & catch my first fish! Here's a sample of how simple the Vex is . . . take your choice, watch their video . . . good luck! http://www.vexilar.com/pages/support/support_videos.html

P. S.

If you're interested in a very good underwater camera, I noticed MikeH (one of our members) has a pretty decent one that he barely used, for sale, on this board. I had some fun watching the whities about 80' down, out off Willow Beach while fishin' with him a couple years ago. He rarely used it . . . to much hassle settin' it up!

Weren't we discussing Crappy Tire somewhere in this thread?

Depending on what tackle ya got, about 20 minutes east, out #60 to the town dock at Dwight . . . . easy to find in a little burg of 100 people. It's an amazing little spot . . . you walk 100' out, you're sittin' on 70' of water. This is Lake Of Bays . . the locals catch lakers, whities, and the occasional speckie. The time I was there I was markin' a lotta fish right along bottom, jigs didn't impress 'em, but the rod with the #10 hook kept gettin' l'il taps? I went to a #12 . . . with a maggot . . . . BINGO!! I reel this thing up . . . out pops a 10" SMELT!! My cousin changes over to a l'il ice rod too . . . in a few hours we had several dozen . . averaged about 8", but we got one 11" one. MMMMMMMMM tasty! We were jiggin' em just off bottom, about 67' of water. If ya don't find anything else, it might be worth a shot. No locals out that day . . . it was about -20, mid February. About 20" of ice.

I had a bad experience getting chased around last spring trying to get a metal detector CTC stores were advertising. They sold me a model number that had been discontinued after being sent to THREE different stores that showed them having the item they listed. I finally mailed a letter to CTC head office, customer relations, and copied it to the managers of the 3 stores that had it listed as being in stock. Within a few days I recieved a call from a customer service manager, who offered to courier me the right detector, at the advertised price at their cost. She also said I'd be receiving a letter of apology, which I did! Plus . . . a $50.00 cheque for my trouble! I posted this in May of last year, with a photo of the letter & cheque. Jumping up and down & foaming at the mouth here will get you NO PLACE. First . . go to the store nearest you with the ad, ask for the product . . . . if they do not have it, and either can't prove they've ever had it, or admit this, ask for the manager. THIS is where you start documenting things . . . date . . . time . . . who you spoke to, and the gist of the conversation. If you get dicked around, leave, call a few more stores in the area AFTER checking their sites to see if your item is listed as in stock. If it turns out they don't have it either, ask for the customer service rep. Again, DOCUMENT everything, including the name of the rep, also explain you would like the name of the store manager, because you will putting your complaint on paper. Then, call head office, ask for the name of the customer service manager and their mailing address. Then write a letter explaining you've been a loyal customer for XX amount of years, but lately the service has been getting very poor, then explain your plight and ask if this is a good way to treat a log-time customer? And what you think is fair? AT NO TIME DO YOU BECOME IMPOLITE, DEMANDING OR THREATENING . . . this will getcha NOWHERE. The names you are writing to MUST be spelled properly, the spelling in the rest of the letter should NOT have mistakes or inconsistencies either. When you're finished your letter, check it twice, then check it again . . . there's nothing that has more power than a well written, factually correct letter of complaint! A poorly written letter, rife with inconsistencies, factual errors, spelling or gramatical errors will likely get filed under 'G!' Do this the way I've suggested, follow it to a 'T' and I guarantee you'll get results!

P. S.

It's not a bad idea to read the fine print at the bottom of the flier . . . occasionally store specific . . . you nearly need a lawyer to go over some of 'em! I'm not sure which arm of the government (Consumer & Commercial Relations?) would look after this if you STILL aren't satisfied, THAT is the big stick you save as a last resort!

DISREGARD . . . adventure was bein' posted as I was askin'. Sure beat sittin' on my butt at home, eh?

The FL20 Ultra Pack comes with a 9 & 19 degree 'iceducer' (what THEY call a TRANSDUCER) and you can switch back & forth for fishing different depths. Also a setting for fishing shallow or weedy water. I was pickin' up weak signals about 30' out from directly under the cone on my FL8 in about 85' of water, and its transducer was a 19 degree, and by the diagram Roy provided, it would seem to be pretty accurate. I'd like to check it out at Big Bay Point, or Bear Point when I feel the ice is thick enough! (12"+) Although I don't have a boat, apparently they can readily be hooked up in one. Unfortunately it's just too dang cold out there for me to test it today . . . . and although there's lotsa ice MOST places . . . . I still hear sporadic reports of people combining swimming & ice fishin!' Not my cup o' tea! Now . . .. I think I know where I might find some 'brown trout' to test it out on!

Ah h h h . . . . FANTASTIC! Now I have almost a full clue what these things are about! (I had a half a clue before.) I thought long & hard about a Marcum . . . they're SUPPOSED to be really good too . . . but 3 full trouble-free years outta the Vex . . . had to go with it. I found a good home for the FL8 too . . . . he promised to share his bed with it so it doesn't get lonely!

I have used a Vexilar FL8SE for a few years, which has worked flawlessly. I just trotted out and grabbed an FL20. The FL8 had an 18 degree iceducer, the FL20 has both a 9 degree & an 18 degree, and you can switch back & forth. I there ANY formula that tells just what diameter of coverage you have at certain depths? For instance, when using a 3" Rapala jig, if you were 100' down, and you were about 30' away from your flasher cone (a different hole), you could pick up the jig on your screen. I'm assuming I would cover a lot less diameter with the 9 degree than the 18, but how would I determine how far out from the cone, at different depths, I'm covering?? Or do ya just guess? It would appear to me I have a circle about 60' in diameter 100' down . . . but I have no clue as to how far out from 'ground zero' (dead center under the cone) the fish is when I start getting the weak signal. Any Vex users ever ponder this?

Hm m m m m . . . .. I obviously got on the wrong site . . . or just wasn't looking in the right section? I'm just a bit thick . . . could you give me a link? Sounds like a good sound investment? T'anks in advance. I already have several 'back roads' map books, so that's a good start.

'Tis okay . . . I found it . . . looks well worth the money! T'anks again. Amazing site, hundreds of topo maps . . http://www.fedpubs.com/order.htm

Ice Fishing Ontario appears to be about 90% ads too . . lodging . . . outfitters . . . fish recipes etc. But t'anks for trying, I'm gonna drop over to Chapters tomorrow . . . they might have something? I haven't bought a fishin' book in years?

I'm trying to dig out some info on possible ice fishing spots WITHOUT expecting to have them 'handed' to me. For instance . . . it's easy enough to 'Google' a route up to Jack's Lake, but if I wasn't sure of entry points, depths & species available, can this be found on the 'net? Most lakes of ANY size at all are listed, but other than ads for local businesses, little or no actual info on the lakes themselves. I know lotsa decent spots, but would like to have a few new ones to drive to, with some basic info to get me started off, BEFORE I head out. Again, I'm NOT asking for 'honey-hole suggestions, just possible ways to find my own, and save a bit of time & gas? Any 'hunting' tips?

W W W W H A T?? NO CARP?

Hm m m m m . . . interesting photo array . . . . Toronto 2015?

I had to pay about $250.00 OVER FULL LIST for that Corolla, and almost give them the Sunbird . . . it was still a bargain . . . used it as a courier vehicle 3 years . . . . 300K+ on it . . . . just oil changes, brakes, tires and a few other normal wear & tear items. I'da loved to have picked up a new Sienna this year . . . but the equivalent to my Montana . . . about $7,000.00 more . . . . as it's looking now . . . . it may have been the better deal? If the 'BIG 3' do go under . . .. I wonder what happens to all those great warranties we bargained for . . . your G. M. / Chrysler / Ford quits . . . . ya just put 'er up on blocks & let the ol' hound dawg use it for a house?

Over the past 40 years I've owned over 2 dozen new cars, about 2/3 of them domestics. The 2 VERY worst lemons being an '84 Sunbird (in late '83 you literally had to BID on an import) which I had 9 months before it threatened to bankrupt me, and I traded it (gave it away?) for an '84 Corolla. (My first clue I had a 'Monday car,' I hit some bumps while driving it off the lot . . . . BOTH FRONT WINDOWS FELL DOWN INSIDE THE DOORS!) Even worse was a '78 Dodge Aspen, which I paid about $3200.00 to buy, and $3900.00 to fix in the year I had it! My 2004 Grand Caravan started to 'self-destruct' last summer, it was either start piling major money into it, or start over? I now have a new Montana, which at 3000+ kilometres needed new wiper blades . . . . the original ones were leaving streaks . . . I was told this was MY fault, as I'd admitted using some vinegar/water mix to try to clean the blades . . . it 'ate' them? After nearly a half hour of heated discussion, with an 'advisor,' service manager, then sales manager, I was given a new set, but only as a 'goodwill gesture!?' It was MY fault for NOT scraping dead bugs & flies off the glass, that had dried on? THIS was what had chewed up the rubber? Just one more SMALL reason I'll NEVER buy domestic again. I bought this van for well under $20,000.00, instead of a Toyota, Nissan, or Volkswagen, for several thou more. (Support your local auto manufacturer?) Like somebody else suggested . . . I should rush out and buy ANOTHER Pontiac, so I'll have spare parts to scavenge once the 'BIG 3' go bankrupt, and leave me and that great warranty high & dry! Should my tax dollars be used to fund the 'BIG 3' bigshots executives as they jet around the country . . . . NOT A CHANCE!

As an avid carper, I've numerous times been asked for fish I've caught . . . . as long as it's obvious the fish is for the table and NOT for the 'rose bushes,' (mostly an 'ol' wives tale) I have no problem with giving the person my fish, as they are VERY plentiful, and it will likely do more good than harm to 'thin the herd.' I once had an Estonian gentleman whom I had given a couple smaller ones (12 - 14 pounds) to, save me a good sized filet which he'd done on a charcoal barbie . . . . delicious . . . . much like bass! For those of you that look down on others that consume 'bottom feeders,' MOST fish including whitefish, pike, perch and many others will scavenge dead and rotting things off bottom, (lobsters & crabs come to mind here too) a carp's food is about 90% vegetation & LIVING molusks.

For those who think these fish 'escaped,' from their holding ponds when they were brought to North America, here's 'THE REST OF THE STORY.'

Carp in North America

A Brief History by Al Kowaleski

Perhaps you have heard that carp, which is an exotic species not native to North America, have by accident invaded our game fish waters. You may have heard that the carp of today are descended from fish that 'escaped' from private stocks or were illegally introduced by unauthorized persons. How is it then that carp are found in almost every state and in waters hundreds of miles apart from each other. The reason is because the U.S. Fish Commission and almost every one of the state governments in our land undertook one of the greatest far reaching campaigns to establish the carp everywhere in our country. Let me explain.

Prior to 1900, native North American fish were viewed as vital natural resources. Most of the fish we regard today as sport fish were harvested commercially by the millions of pounds. They were shipped by rail to markets where they were an important food source for a growing population. This was before the advent of refrigeration and communities relied on 'ice house' preservation. Harvested were the basses, sunfish, crappies, pike, walleye, perch, lake trout, and sturgeon. Also coarse fish such as freshwater drum, buffalo fish, catfish, suckers, bullheads and others.

The results of large harvests were declining stocks of lake and river fishes at a time when the population was expanding. To answer these concerns the U.S. Congress authorized President Ulysses S. Grant to appoint the US Fish Commission in 1871 to oversee the nation's fisheries interests. Among the first tasks was to consider what species to introduce to bolster the nations supply of food fishes. By 1874 the commission after long study issued a report entitled "Fishes Especially worthy of Cultivation" It went on to say that no other species except the carp, promises so great a return in limited waters. Cited were advantages over such fish as black bass, trout, grayling and others " because it is a vegetable feeder, and although not disdaining animal matters can live on vegetation alone and can attain large weight kept in small ponds and tanks".

In 1876 the commission enumerated other good qualities such as high fecundity (a count of ripe eggs in the female fish), adaptability to artificial propagation, hardiness of growth, adaptability to environmental conditions unfavorable to equally palatable species, rapid growth, harmlessness in relation to fish of other species, ability to populate waters to it's greatest extent, and fine table qualities. By 1877 citing the above reasons and adding 'there is no reason why time should be lost with less proved fishes' the commission convinced of the value of carp imported 345 fishes of scaled, mirror and leather carp from German aquaculturists. On May 26th they were placed in the Druid Hill Park ponds in Baltimore Maryland. The ponds proved inadequate and some were transferred to the Babcock lakes on the monument lot in Washington, D.C.

So did they somehow escape from these confines to populate nearly everywhere? No. Now the state governments get involved. Records indicate in 1879, about 6.203 fingerlings were produced in the Babcock Lakes. These were shipped to 273 applicants in 24 states. About 6000 fingerlings were produced in the Druid Hill ponds that year and were stocked primarily in Maryland. One year later, 31,332 carp were shipped to 1,374 applicants. In 1882 carp production increased to 143,696 fish, distributed in small lots to 7,000 applicants. In 1883 about 260,000 carp were sent to 9,872 applicants in 298 of 301 congressional districts and into 1,478 counties. During the years 1879-1896 the US Fish Commission distributed 2.4 million carp, some of which were sent to Canada, Costa Rica, Ecuador and Mexico. By 1897 the Commission discontinued the stocking because carp had been distributed nearly everywhere and many states assumed the task of propagation and stocking of carp.

Within several years many states were involved in the propagation and stocking of millions of carp. The Ohio State Fish Commission stocked tributaries of Lake Erie. Every major river in Illinois was stocked. Fish rescue missions from 1890-1920 conducted by various states and the US fish Commission stocked hundreds of lakes and rivers, particularly into the Midwestern region of the US. In a few short years the effort to introduce the resource of carp had been successful. Newspapers and magazines lauded the importance to the food industry and the bright future of all citizens eating carp.

Commercial production started in the 1900's. During the decade after World War II, annual catches reached 36 million pounds. Many prominent restaurants and hotels served carp on the menu. Restaurants of the Waldorf and Astoria listed "Carp in Rhine Wine Sauce"

Following World War II the saltwater commercial fishing industry captured a major portion of the fishing market by consolidating and modernizing operations This resulted in tremendous productions of ocean fish and improvements in processing, packaging ,shipping and storage and a reduction in operating costs. At a time when the oceans were perceived as pure and our rivers were becoming polluted, contributed among other factors to the decline of carp as a food fish.

History demonstrates that the federal and state governments of the US undertook a massive effort to install the carp in all of our waters from coast to coast in an effort that no other country has ever embarked upon. History also indicates that American anglers in great numbers lead the world today in the history of carp angling since the earliest turn of the century. Generations of anglers have enjoyed the carp as a sport or food fish. History also indicates that the carp found in our many waters did not escaped the ponds of long ago carp farmers, as the myth is told, but were placed carefully for our angling benefit by thoughtful government agencies.

Geeze, that's a REALLY tough spot to be in. As a 3 time cancer survivor, (lost half my colon, got my prostate fried) and am still here. The survival secret . . . . good caring doctors . . . . good caring friends and NEVER lose your sense of humour. Keep us informed, as best you can . . . . you've supported every good cause we've had on this board . . . . now it's the board's turn to support you.

Hm m m m m ?? Seems this boils down to mind over matter . . . if you REALLY believe it will work . . . it MIGHT? Pretty impressive list of people who claim they DO work? I'm gonna look around and see what there is to be had out there . . . . lotsa the big stores carry money back guarantees on products they push. Funny . . . . I'll blow $50.00 to $100.00+ at my local tackle store on various gadgets that 'fish just can't resist' with barely a second thought . . . . but balk at blowing $50.00+ on a gizmo that lays claim to cure my (many) aches & pains? I'll letcha's know?

As we get older, many body parts seem to either quit working properly or ache like 'ell? There are countless 'money-back' cures being thrown at us from every direction . . . some, perhaps legitimate, most just another money grab. But . . . . one that seems to ALWAYS be popping up as far back as I can remember is the use of magnets for chronic joint & muscle pain? Right now, I know several people who wear these 'magnetized' arm bracelets, and swear they work. I just had a good friend (who NEVER fibs, not even about the fish he catches) who was suffering from chronic neck pain . . . . his wife got him a pillow (Avon) with l'il magnets sewn into the pillowcase . . . . IT WORKED!! (He WAS a skeptic, like me!) I'm interested in trying a bracelet that MIGHT ease the tendonitis in my right elbow which I've had for years . . . . it NEVER goes away. (I spend a lotta lonely nights with that painful RIGHT arm, eh?)My question . . . . has ANYONE out there ever tried ANY of these devices for chronic pain? What was the results? I've seen countless variations of the 'magnetic bracelet' almost everywhere, flea markets, department stores, pharmacies, numerous adds in publications, anywhere from a few paltry bucks, to hundreds. I'd just feel kinda silly wearing something like that, and lining some quacks pocket . . . . but . . .. if they actually work . . . . ?? Anybody got personal experience or know somebody who actually uses such things?

. . . . . which, to the best of my knowledge, is not PRESENTLY illegal, is it?