Ramble
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Posts posted by Ramble
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I've been keeping an eye on the post but haven’t been posting much, because I don’t want to argue or get anyone bent out of shape here. However, I’m going to weigh in again, and hopefully I don't step on anyone’s toes too badly.
Who is to say that this is not just ‘evolution’?We as humans are part of the evolution chain as well, we may have the traits that are required to become the dominant specie in the world but in truth we are also part of the animal world. It seems to me then, that as we evolve and force others into evolving at fast rates/ different patterns it is simply evolution. How do you think those animals got the big racks? Did something kill all the small ones? I doubt it, simply evolution.
Evolution can come about from many kinds of selection. Sexual selection, natural selection or artificial selection as examples. Sexual selection occurs when mates are continuously choosing a mate with a specific characteristic for example the tails of the birds of paradise. Natural selection is the selection we are mostly familiar with. Creatures that possess the best traits for their environment at have the highest fitness level, and so a higher proportion of their genes are passed to the next generation. Artificial selection occurs when people select for various traits. The various dog breeds were brought about by artificial selection of various traits.
Evolution is all of these things. Evolution is NOT a predictor event, when I mean is, it isn't a "best guess" at what will be successful in the future, it simply responds to the selection pressure during the animals’ life, one day at a time.
People in the case of rams; have been artificially selecting rams for their largest horns. This lowers the fitness of rams with large horns. In other words they are evolving to have smaller horns, because the large horned animals are dying, and not passing on as many genes to the next generation, thereby lowering their fitness, and increasing the fitness of the smaller horned animals. Same idea with the European caribou in body. Large bodied animals are being killed of, so animals that are smaller proliferate in the gene pool, make the overall heard smaller in body size over time.
They are evolving is response to hunting pressure by humans. In natural selection bigger animals with larger horns dominated, and we are messing with that. The sheep had adapted to their habitat, and conditions based on natural selection of their environment. The sheep are now displaying an evolutionary shift which indicates artificial selection is now a major factor in their evolution. The point I believe of the article is displaying how we are working against the natural selection of the population. This may not be beneficial to the population and negative traits previously removed through natural selection, may now get a foot hold because of humans selecting animals which are the biggest and healthiest, giving unhealthy animals an ability to increase their fitness.
For the caribou this can have some serious implications. Rams loosing horn size, is mostly a problem for us who value them for their horns. It is unclear if other detrimental genes are being passed on due to the selection occurring. But the caribou body size is of concern. Animals in the north have a larger body size then southern relatives. It’s easier to retain heat if you have a larger body mass. Smaller animals need more calories to stay warm, and harsh winters may reduce population numbers. That is an example of how our artificial selection has the potential to mess with the health of the heard.
Pretty linear thinking IMO. Pull a trophy moose every year and the gene pool gets diluted. If I'm not mistaken, that’s two record moose taken in 2008. Think that there are enough of the calves sired that make it to that same potential ultimate size? I don't.As far as moose go, there population is HUGE compared to the populations of the mountain sheep or European caribou. Moose from Virginia have been found in Ontario. The population spans the entire country, allowing for the flow of genes. This allows for extremely remote locations to be a "pool" for the positive genes in the population. There is also sexual selection at play for moose antlers, and even if lesser males are the only ones around, the antler size plays a role in the sexual selection. This continuously drives the moose populations towards large racks. SO basically the life history of the animal is insulation the effects artificial selection has on the racks of the moose.
As far as human evolution goes. We aren’t really evolving much anymore. Natural selection doesn’t really apply as we just use technology to adapt instead of adapting biologically. Sexual selection might play a role, but since there isn’t one preferred trait in our population, everyone likes different things, then that kind of cancels itself out. Best we can hope for is some sort of perverted artificial selection. The sad thing is that evolution is based on the fitness of mates. The more kids you have the more genes you pass onto the next generation. Stats show that more educated people are the fewer children they have. So it’s possible we could see a "dumbing down" of population if you assume that intelligence is a genetic trait which can be selected for.
It’s very difficult to apply some sort of selection process to people now-a-days.
Anyway I hope that helped you guys out with the how and why some of this evolution stuff works.
Feel free to criticize my response, and we can delve into this stuff a little further.
-Dave
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Geat fish photos. You can never agru with a pile of brookie shots. There is some brutes for sure. Cant wait to see the rest.
Nothing can ruin a good memory more then someone who cant snap a good fishing picture.YOU'RE TELLING ME! Not much worse then a butchered fish photo when its a memory.
-Dave
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nice 'eyes.
-Dave
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Sounds like a good trip for sure. i was wondering how you guys made out. Nce work.
-R-
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Why target pike when there is lakers to be had?
Spring trip to Opeongo for lakers and brookies good times had by all i assure you.
Otherwise Drifter's plan sounds pretty good.
-Dave
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I think you have to wait till ur card expires to be eligable for the 3 year. Its wierd. I was getting one for my sister, and i could get a 3 year. I looked at my options at is want their, but i had 1 year left on my 3 year card. I think there is something which removes it even as an option untill the year ur card expires. I havn't figured it out yet, but i got a 3 year this year on line no problem....but my card was up.
-R-
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Nice fish for sure. Handlining pike is always a good time. Last summer handlining for walleye i got a 37 incher to the cradel by hand. That is a great pike for a small lake like that. I love forgetting about he setline, then having it go off, always good for a rush as you scramble for it lol.
-R-
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what size weight are you guys using with these tubes?
-R-
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They definatly work, but have a much different action then the pimple. get one, and play a little. You will see what i mean.
smbhunter, what colours do you find are best in the rattle flash?
-R-
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44 eh?! Sounds like global warming changed its mind
its called climate change lol
-R-
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-32 in peterborough at 8am this morning.
-R-
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the are talking about this stuff likes it new. this stuff has been around for YEARS. the big horn thing, is pratically dogma now-a-days.
This kind of selectionis affecting all kinds of things. i've seen papers about the behaviour of fish predisposing them to being caught leaving the remainder to be less agressive and slower growing.
The human selection is different then the natural selection or sexual selection, because we reomve the biggest and best.
The biggest animals would be the ones to breed first anyways right, so the genes are still going to be in the heard. Even the inferior animals might still be the offspring of the "trophy" animals, and the gene that makes the animals trophy might still be there. But then again im not a geneticist or biologist.in a word "no". lol no offense.
Big horns and things like caribou have a heard structure. 1 male does the majority of maiting to a group of females. If you keep removing the biggest and best lesser quality males do the breading and water down the gene pool, and the traits end up being lost.
The traits may still be burried in the genetic code of the heard, but it would take selective pressure in the other direction to bring back the big males as they once were. You would have to kill off small males, and let the big males do their thing. It doesn't take a whole lot of time to shift traits one direction or the other with adequite pressure.
anyway, thats my 25 cents.
-R-
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the burl in that maple is impressive. It's a beautiful net.
-Dave
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Foresty or EM/ET at fleming are also good courses in the environmental field. Check out Sault College. The have a bunch of out door courses as well. When i went through this applying thing there were some stuff through algonquin college as well that i thought would be insteresting. So check out those guys as well.
I think Fleming now has a progarm agreement with trent. 2 years of college and 2 years of uni gets you your Bachlors of Science and a diploma from the college. It's a deadly combo you can do in very little time. Definatly something i think you should look into if you want this sort of field. Enviro rehad, and assessment is where a lot of jobs are. Keep an open mind about this stuff.
-R-
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last 2 years i have played a little with lines. Not too much. I have some regular fireline on 2 reels and this year i tried the fireline crystal... NOT the kind specifically for ice fishing but the general use stuff. I found the crystal to ice up considerably less then the regular grey fireline. Make sure you use a abit of mono backing, or a little tape over the knot to the spool. In cold weather i find the fireline likes to spin independently and even perch can take more then a little line off before you realize what's going on. I'm not a big fan of the regular braided. My buddy uses it on his rods. Last year he used the regular and it iced up really fast. This year he has braided ment for ice fishing and it ices up less, but he still ends up with more ice on his line then i do, no matter which one of my setups i'm using.
I also use floro leaders, and have 6 pound floro on a couple of the smaller rods. I'm pretty happy with it. It's some floro co-polymer ment for ice fishing. Hardly ices at all.
Hope that was some help.
-R-
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The 'eye in the 6th picture down i'm pretty sure is a sauger. A few of the others have the characteristics as well. What ever they are congrats. Take a look at athis, go back and catch some more, then let me know if they are sauger or walleye lol. Fishing in the name of science.
http://www.landbigfish.com/fish/fish.cfm?ID=33
-Dave
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i love the old pictures. My grandmother has all of my grandfathers old pictures, and there is some amazing stuff in their. He was quite the ubush whacker before he enlisted for WW2.
Here is a picture of him on the Obabika river near Temagami back in 1942 i believe.
-R-
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Fish with compression issues with also have their eyes popping outa their heads. Bringing them up slow is the best bet. Fishing shallower is one thing, but sometimes you can't target the fish you want in shallow water.
Another concern in cold weather is ice damade to the fish. Freezing eyes and fins is quite hard on them. So be aware of that. It doesnt take too long for it to happen.
Someone else will probably be able to help you with the depth question. I dont target a lot of deep fish during any given year.
-R-
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Ummm....it was going from 7am to 7pm most days on high. i think it was 2 of the green tanks. It may be half a tank either way cause we moved a bit, and my memoery is a little fuzzy on the subject lol
-R-
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I was considering the stinger hook option Clamp-it. But decided i didnt care enough at the time to do anything about it. Next time i think i might give it a go. Any ideas about a good way to set up a stinger combo that might have helped?
-R-
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I'm hoping to get out after those simcome lakers and whities one day. Until then i'll just have to keep reading your reports i guess. lol
-Dave
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I was back at the school thing this week, and had a look at my schedule. The 1st week, everyone signs up for labs and seminars. Most of them don’t start until the second week or later. So this week I had no classes Thursday, and 1 lecture Friday…Hmmmm. I figured it was time to apply the “Nothing happens in the 1st week anyway.” rule. Time to get out on the ice.
Jeff and I had been looking forward to Scugog again as we did very well last year. He arrived Wed night and after a rum and 5 and a half hours of sleep we were up at 530am out the door by six and headed to Gorskey’s.
We stopped to pick up minnows at the Causeway bait shop, and re-discovered the price of his minnows. I remembered why I forced the memory out of my mind lol. It was $4.50 for shiners or pinheads and $6.50 for mud’s. Shiners and mud’s are sold by the dozen, which is exactly 12 if you weren’t aware. We got to the lake, unloaded and marched forth.
We got to the spot I marked with the GPS last year, and punched a series of holes looking for the weed line, or at least the gap in the weed line we had done so well on previously. It didn’t exist. Damn it. We went to work with the auger and after about 9 more holes in a line towards the deepwater we were on to it.
We punched four holes and set the hut up. It was time to get jigging. All the messing around saw us fishing by 9. We weren’t too happy with our timing, as we missed the morning bite. I did manage 1 crappie though.
The morning rolled on and with the cold temperatures I was happy to be in the hut. Although I did feel like a pansy for ice fishing inside, I was a warm pansy.
Jeff was jigging his Orange pimple throughout the morning. Right around 11am he got a hit. After a short scuffle, he pulled a nice little bass from the ice.
After putting her back in the lake, we decided it was time for lunch. We looked at the menu, and decided hotdogs were in order. The chef went to work on our request.
With boredom setting in, and lots of little perch scooting around under the ice I scaled way down and tried to temp them into biting. I had to watch for them to pick the bait up, because I couldn’t feel it even on my ultra light. I managed to land a few oh these little guys while Jeff just laughed at me working so hard for dink perch.
The afternoon passed on by and about 3 we decided we should have dinner before the evening bite began, because we sure were not going to be cooking then. After looking at the dinner menu we decided on the stew, with the last 2 hotdogs added of course. The chef got to cooking, and it wasn’t long before we discovered we were without the necessary cutlery. Then we found some spoons…in orange/gold and fire tiger.
After our dinner we prepared for the evening bite, by putting some new minnows on the set lines at about 4, and getting some of the clutter off the ice at our feet.
The fish started cooperating around 4:30pm. The crappie had moved in. We ended up with a good number coming through the ice. We never saw any walleye though. We took the pictures once we were home. We didn’t want to waste the time on photos while they were biting.
The best fish of the evening. 13.75 inches.
We ended up filleting 8 crappie and 1 halfway, descent bluegill that made an appearance.
We left at 7pm.
After a rum, we went to bed, and were up at 5 to allow us some more time to set up. We swapped up Jeff’s 8 inch auger for my 6 inch to give us more room in the hut. We set up about 8 feet away from where we had set up the day before to see what the morning bite was like at the spot. We were fishing about ten after 7. It wasn’t long before we noticed our minnows were thrashing extra hard. We were sure there were fish in the area and they just weren’t biting. I thought I saw a tap on my set line so I slowly raised it about 3 feet and they let it fall back down. There was about a 3 second pause, and then there was a definite hit. I set the hook, and after a fight, we had the 1st walleye of the trip.
The jigging lines didn’t see any action all morning. The set lines had all kinds of attention. We would see a tap lift the tip, pause at the top and let it fall back down. Crappie were tagging the lure most of the time at the top of the lift. The walleye were whacking the baits at the bottom of the drop. That morning we had 4 more on. I lost a little one around 10-12 inches at the hole. Jeff missed 2 and lost an eater at the hole when the hook pulled out. The walleye were just holding the minnows, and not getting the hook. We had some other bumps which never became anything more. Then the walleye seem to disappear and the crappie showed up. We hit about a dozen of all sizes and then the bite stopped about 9-930am. This was the best crappie of the morning. 11.5 inches.
As the morning moved on towards afternoon, we made some coffee and kept jigging. A snowmobile went ripping by us out in the deep water and about 2 minutes later a really nice looking walleye made an appearance. He hovered looking at my set line then cruised off towards the weed line and disappeared. After some more time had passed. I look down the hole again, only to see a fish of the same size beside my setline. About the same instant that I realized it was a fish, she took the minnow. I practically dove for my rod and got a nice scrappy fight out of the fish. I was hoping for a walleye, but ended up with a beautiful smallmouth specimen measuring 16.5 inches. She was gorgeous.
We kept on jigging away and Jeff put on a blade bait of mine to try and call in a fish or 2. After about ten minutes of that he went back to the orange pimple. A few minutes later he says: “Dave there is an ‘eye right at the bottom here.” I didn’t move. We just kept jigging. Jeff gave the pimple a couple more lifts and the fish moved a little closer, then a pause and the fish gently grabbed the shiner tail on the hook. Jeff could see it didn’t have the hooks, and waited. The fish turned and then appeared to have sucked the hook in further. Jeff went for the hook set, but all he did was tear the minnow from the hook. The ‘eye darted off to the weeds and Jeff swore in a manner only fishing can inspire.
Some time afterwards we had a nice musky in the 36 inch area cruise under our holes. It was a real treat. She showed no interest in us. She just cruised on by.
Around 2pm Jeff’s pimple saw some more action, and he pulled his 1st largie of the year through his hole.
Dinner was about 3:30 and we had an entire meal of fish. We ate all of the fillets we had acquired the day before and they were goooood.
The rest of the evening saw very little action. The evening bite was non existent. We managed 3 or 4 crappie and Jeff landed a really nice slab. 14.25 inches.
The place we were fishing had exactly 10.5 inches of ice. There were several people out tempting fate and insurance rates over the days we were their.
We left at 7pm, and decided to forgo the filleting as we were tired and the fish were frozen. We discussed other fishing options, and decided to flip a coin. The nickel sent us back to the Scugog. So we had a rum and went to bed.
Up at 5 again, and off we went. We had the timing and driving down to an art now. The moon was going down as we set up, and we were jigging at 7am in the same spot as the day before.
The morning bite was non existent. We had 1 bump and landed 1 crappie which was too small to keep. At 9:30 we decided to go try a spot in the weeds. We pulled up camp, and made for shallower water. We were jigging for about 20 minutes and I picked up a crappie. It went out on the ice, and we went back to work jigging. Around noon we decided that we should try and find a better spot along the outside weed edge before the hoards of people showed up. The day before was pretty ridicules. There were power augers going constantly and people on snow machines and quads ripping past. It became very annoying, very fast.
I went to work filleting and Jeff kept jigging.
We moved down the lake north of our position, and started punching holes. We also walked around looking for weeds around old holes. We ended up finding a spot we thought was the weed line and set up shop. Turned out not to be the outside edge, but an opening in the weed about 10 feet across. If you got down on your hands and knees, and stuffed your face into the hole, it was obviously an opening near the weed edge. Almost immediately we saw more and larger perch, then at any of the other spots we had been to.
We set everything up, and started on dinner, another feed of fish.
We were defiantly full after that meal and started jigging. The people just kept pilling onto the ice. Two guys of questionable intelligence set up disturbing close to us. I went over later to chat as we packed up and it took me about 6 steps.
We saw lots of vehicles on the ice as well that evening. With all the people and holes I saw punched through the ice on that lake, there is no way you would ever get me out on it in a vehicle. Ever.
We managed 3 crappie during the evening bite, with only 1 being a keeper. We didn’t hear of any one else catching fish either. The 2 guys practically on top of us only managed 3 crappie, and I donated our single keeper to their pile.
We left at quarter to 7pm and got back to my place in good time. We killed a bottle of Bacardi, and got some sleep. We were going to go out today as well, but with the fishing getting worse the more we fished, we decided to bail. I don’t mind sitting around on the ice not catching fish too much, but Jeff isn’t a big fan of it.
After 3 days of fishing we had 2 good feeds of fish, and had a great time. My abs were sore from laughing after the 1st day. It was good to catch up, as we hadn’t been fishing together since last winter. We both guide in different corners of the country during the summer.
The high pressure system which set up earlier this week put a hurt on the fishing. Guys had been doing well but we only talked to 1 guy on the 1st day who had caught a walleye. The set lines had a ¼ oz glow head jig at the bottom and a single hook about a foot above it. The single, took most of the crappie, and the jigs received the walleye attention. As far as jigging spoons go, the orange pimple did the best, yet again, followed by a silver buckshot rattle spoon. Set lines caught the majority of fish, however, it seemed jigging spoons were critical to our success. The jigging seems to bring the fish into the area.
As far as bait goes, mud minnows (dace) well out preformed the shiners. As usually shiner die faster on the hook, and look a lot more stupid then your average dace lol. Fish were all caught on dace. Only the walleye Jeff encountered seemed to have an interest in any part of a shiner.
The dude at the bait shop said that “the guys” are having a very hard time patterning the fish this year. They seem to be one spot one day and gone the next. They haven’t set up a usual pattern yet. We thought that was pretty interesting, and it might explain how we had good fishing one morning, and that night it was terrible.
Anyway I had another great few days on the ice. So far this year I have 7 days out fishing. Not too bad.
Tight Lines
-R-
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Yeah i have the DVD. pete sent it to me for x-mas lol. had a great time guiding him, altho we never got a 40 incher. its a re-run, it was 1st aied on thanks giving. Nice to see myself in aport tho lololol Flattery will get you everywhere you know lol
-Dave
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I heard there is a place to get minnows on the island now for the scugog. Does it exist, and how is it.
-Dave
Natural Selection Gives Way to Human Selection
in General Discussion
Posted
Another article on the subject.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/01...78065:b20599745
Human consumption speeding up evolutionary change: study
Last Updated: Monday, January 12, 2009 | 6:22 PM ET Comments19Recommend25CBC News
Humans are dramatically speeding up evolutionary changes in the plants and animals they hunt and harvest, according to new research.
Researchers from Canadian and U.S universities analyzed data from a variety of studies that examined trait changes — like those in antler size or reproductive age — of 29 species of organisms consumed by humans.
The study found that changes in organisms harvested by humans — among them fish, ungulates, invertebrates and plants — occur 300 per cent faster than they would in the organisms' natural environment.
This is because humans generally tend to "target large, reproductive-aged adults," says the study, which will be published in Tuesday's edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.
"Fishing regulations often prescribe the taking of larger fish, and the same often applies to hunting regulations," said lead researcher Chris Darimont in a statement. (CBC radio's Jan. 17 edition of Quirks and Quarks will have an interview with Chris Darimont.)
"Hunters are instructed not to take smaller animals or those with smaller horns. This is counter to patterns of natural predation, and now we're seeing the consequences of this management."
Animals are also breeding at a younger age and are getting smaller, the study says. Populations of some fish are on average 20 per cent smaller than 30 years earlier while other creatures are reaching reproductive maturity 25 per cent earlier.
"The public knows we often harvest far too many fish, but the threat goes above and beyond numbers," said Darimont. "We're changing the very essence of what remains, sometimes within the span of only two decades. We are the planet's super-predator."