Garry2Rs

Beware of the Bait Monkey!

He lives in those shiny pages...HAHAHA.

Have you noticed all the recycled lure designs being promoted as "New?"

More upsetting is these copies are often four times the price of the originals.

To see what I mean follow this link ...Click Here...

Look at the venerable $4.99 Cotton Cordell "Pencil Popper."

This was originally a saltwater lure and dates almost back to the Arc.

With the current rage for big baits many anglers have started using it for bass.

Recently Ima, the Japanese lure company, released their $20.99 "Big Stick" and this year Paycheck Baits from California introduced their $17.99 "The One" pencil bait.

Tell me if I am imagining a design and pricing rip-off!

Next case, on the same page...The basic popper.

Although I have other makes, I still use an old Heddon Chugger Spook.

I once saw this lure listed in a 1941 Heddon catalogue, and it wasn't new back then. Over the years the design has been copied by everybody! I'm sure we all have at least one $4.99 Rebel "Pop-R" or $5.49 Strike King "Spittin' King" in our kit.

My question is, what's the story on the Don Iovino "Splash-It" @ $14.50, and the $19.95 Lobina Rico?

These are just two examples of something that I think I have seen in all styles of bait recently.

I'm not opposed to new things, I just resent being told Schmit is Shinola.

Leave the gun lobby alone.

Nuts is nuts and this was done by a nut.

Two points...

It is a mistake to involve government in anything you don't want screwed up!

Governments first job is self perpetuation. Therefore they like to create committees, who then appoint officials and hire staff. The staff do studies, which they sent to the committees to study. New committees will be formed to study the studies and report back to the committee.

Since those people who oppose any use of the outdoors or don't want you on "their" river, lake or shore, are better connected and more politically savvy than you, these studies will be heavily influenced by people who don't want what you do.

If you want it done, be prepared to do it yourself.

Join or form an organization. Collect private money to do these improvements. Speak to the lowest possible level of local government about donating your cash, time and labour to accomplish your goals. The closer you get to the grass roots, the more likely you are to find folks like yourselves.

I have a Magic Jack with a Hamilton number so that my friends can call me, as a local call, even when I am in Arizona.

It's not perfect. It drops a call once in awhile. On the other hand it costs $20.00 a year!!!

In Apsley I have basic phone service, for local calls. Up there I use a "stick" for my Internet. I only hook up the Magic Jack when I want to make a long distance call.

I want to congratulate you-guys on a very informative, calm and rational discussion. I have seen this topic quickly degenerate into brawl on some fishing boards.

I think we have pretty well established that with few exceptions, mono is just as good as fluoro at 25% of the cost. In some cases maybe mono is even better!

One thing I especially liked was the in-put from Steelheaders, because they face super clear water and fish that are known to be spooky.

Personally, I will continue to use short fluoro and mono leaders on my braid, depending on whether I want the bait to dive or float.

The Tackle Tour article is fine, but it was done in 2007. Many of the now popular Fluoro's weren't on the market back then. In fact TT recently commented that it was time for them to retest and update their report.

Lots of good ideas on Fluorocarbon here!

In truth I was being a little flippant for the sake of humour in my post, but only a little...grin.

Okay, for better or worse these are my true thoughts on Fluorocarbon...

I think that for Pike and Musky leaders either mono or fluoro have the same benefits, in that they are easier on the fish and less obvious that a metal leader or tying directly to the 80 or 100 pound braid most guys are using.

I seriously doubt that there is any significant difference in abrasion resistance between a tough mono like XT and fluoro.

I believe that the invisibility angle is way over sold!

I'm fairly sure that on reaction baits, like cranks, fish respond to what they see as a fleeing prey and never consciously see the line.

I have said before that years ago fly fishermen used dental floss as a tippet to fool tough fish. The floss wasn't invisible, but it was small in diameter, and limp. Therefore, it was less effected by cross currents. Cross currents cause what is called "drag" on a bait. When drag is present, the fly, nymph, worm, roe bag etc. drifts in an unnatural way.

To bring this back to Fluoro, since it tends to be smaller in diameter, for a given pound-test, it might be less effected by drag than mono of the same strength.

On baits that suspend or free fall I now use Fluoro as a leader. In fact I use fluoro as a leader on any baits that I want to sink. It might not help, but what-the-hey, it can't hurt! I also use mono as a leader on top-waters and plastic toads, because I want them to float, and what-the-hey!

On casting reels I have used 20 pound fluoro as a running line. I also use 20 pound mono. It depends on whether I have a floating or sinking bait. However, over all I prefer braid.

As a running line on spinning rods, I have had poor results. Mono is definitely limper and might have it's place, but I prefer braid, because of line-twist issues. After Crappie season I only use my spinning gear for Senkos and drop shotting. I tie on a short fluoro leader...what-the-hey.

Trout, Steelhead and Walleye guys might have different opinions. But I can only tell you my thoughts.

In summary, I first spooled up with fluorocarbon back in 2000 and have tried it again several times, as each new generation of line claimed to have solved the problems of wiry line with bad memory.

If the definition of insanity is:

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I suppose that, as Billy Joel said, "That only proves that I'm insane"...HAHAHA!

I have been cruising on-line sites that feature videos and write-ups on the latest fishing tackle.

Most of the new product centre around recurring themes:

New smaller, lighter reels with even more bearings and higher gear ratio's...

Sort of Carter Burden meets fishing...

"You can never be too thin, too rich, or have too many books." becomes "You can't have too high a gear ratio, be too small or have too many bearings."

Rods for slightly different tactics or presentations...

Worms but not Jigs on this one, Spinnerbaits but not Cranks here...Top waters and Frogs on that one...no wait...was that one Jerkbaits and C-rigs...Sometimes you just can't tell the players without a program!!!

More rods that are Species Specific...

What was I thinking? I can't chase bass with a walleye rod!!!

And of coarse the latest can't miss baits!

I haven't seen so many "New and Improved" that looked like the "same-old in a new wrapper" since my last trip to the laundry soap aisle at the Super Market!

It reading the comments and viewing the testimonials I began to recall the theory of the"Big Lie."

Richard Belzer defines The Big Lie, in his book UFOs, JFK, and Elvis: Conspiracies You Don't Have To Be Crazy To Believe, this way:

"If you tell a lie that's big enough, and you tell it often enough, people will believe you are telling the truth, even when what you are saying is total crap."

In fishing terms I think that's sort of like the benefits of Fluorocarbon...

Then the latest must-have fads:

Reels with "go-fast" paint jobs.

Mini Guides.

Do they come with a needle threader?

And even more Split-Grips.

Does anyone else get those end knobs tangled in their jacket???

As kids weren't we catching fish on garden worms? Wasn't hi-tech a neon coloured rod?

When were we seduced into believing we needed ten shapes of plastic creatures, in eight colours, swing from $500.00 worth of space-age materials just to do the same job?

Okay, the truth is I need all this new stuff because the bass on my waters have a higher grade-point average than most College Freshmen, but I doubt that you do...HAHAHA

Never say never Garry... it is CANADA afterall

Good Point!!!

Hahaha.

I got my Seniors card.

That means I never need to buy a fishing license again.

I am very sorry to hear of Jack's passing.

My deepest condolences to his family and friends.

Great stuff!

Obviously some knots are harder to master than others, but all knots are just a matter of practice.

Fifty years ago if you could tie the Improved Clinch and the Blood Knot you were King of the Boat...If some guys are still using those knots and are happy, who are we to question their bliss?

On the other hand, most of us learned the Palomar and the Uni when we started using braid. Fluoro leaders are now all the rage, and the Uni to Uni will do the trick. However, by adding the Reverse Albright or the Yucatan to our repertoire, we can make a stronger and smaller line-to-leader knot that will pass through even Micro-Guides.

Interesting that the best knot for joining 2 lines of smiler size only tested out to 67%. I would be looking for something higher than %80.

I suspect that the results in the first link are mostly for plastic to plastic line.

As a test, I tried the Yucatan using 4# mono to 8# braid. The knot pulled out until I tied it backwards...That is doubling and twisting the braid instead of the mono.

I normally tie a Reverse Albright knot for attaching light leaders of mono or fluoro to braid. Here's a link to the knots that Powerpro recommends for braid.

Check out the extra lock-knot at the bottom of the page.

Powerpro knots

Here's an interesting article from Field&Stream magazine.

Each of these is a different type of knot.

The title says five knots, but there are only four pages...???

Best knots link

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Fishing is my favourite form of loafing.

 

P.S. When you mentioned the outfit should be balanced, did you mean a light blank + light reel or that a balance point should be right under your reel or very close to it? I've found rods longer than 6'6" have their tips too heavy to achieve a balance with an average 8.5 Oz baitcaster and by that reason even got a balancing kit from BPS to tune my BPS Extreme and old Bionic rods.

When I said balance I was referring to a light action rod with a smaller light weight reel and small diameter line.

Don't worry about using 20# braid. I used 20# braid, for several years, on all my bass size casting reels. Eventually, I moved up to 30# when my well used 20# line started to break on the cast.

Having read the reviews and write-up about the new Sufix 832, with the Gore-Tex thread in it, I now suspect the breakage was due to the tightly woven fibers cutting themselves with long use.

With the ultra smooth bearings and tight tolerances of today's premium reels, there's no reason that light weight mono couldn't be used. For practicality, I would use braid. It's easier to untangle, casts just as well and gives you roughly 3 times the strength for the same diameter.

When we are talking about finesse fishing with a baitcaster, does it mean we should use a lighter line? I always used 50Lb on my baitcasters and 12Lb mono, not less because line deeps into a spool. Would you use 10Lb or even 8Lb mono or braid with equivalent thickness on a baitcaster?

Of course I add 6-10 Lb fluo leader, but what about a main line?

There is a question of using the right tool for the job here, and spinning gear will always handle light line and light baits better than casting gear. However, putting that argument aside, there are three basic problems to overcome...

First, picking a tangle out of fine line will be a nightmare. So, mono and Fluoro might not be a great choice.

Second, small diameter line might find it's way between the spool and the frame, so a high quality reel might be needed.

Third, the outfit needs to balance, so finding a medium light casting rod will be important.

I own a 50 size Calcutta and have a Loomis-Frontier ML rod. I have spooled it with 20# Powerpro and 14 # Fireline fused, which are both the same diameter as 6-8 pound mono.

My intention was to use it to throw very small crankbaits like 03, 05 or 07 Original Rapala's etc. The truth is, even with this light tackle, it's hard to generate the tip speed to throw these 1/16th and 1/8oz. baits very far. The fact that light casting rods tend to be 6ft. and under doesn't help with distance either.

In the end I went back to spinning gear for the tiny lures and threw 3/16th and 1/4oz baits with this outfit.

Dont they get caught between a rock and a hard place?

I only use them in the weeds because...

A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss.

Delivery is byway of the Rock Island Line...

Hmmm.... I doubt it's too short for steelheading. And the tip is Xtra Fast. I have Frontier 13' and couple other rods for trout, the ProLite Finesse is absolutely different. And it wasn't in trout section of the store either. I read some people use shorter versions in ML for shaky warms, weightless plastic, roboworms etc., but it is much more convenient to use spinning setup for this purpose, not 7'6" M what I have.

I am not suggesting that you should use this rod for Steelheading in Ontario.

I thought you asked what the rod was designed for, and I believe that it is a Salmon/Steelhead casting rod.

While it is true that we are used to seeing spinning rods of much greater lengths used for Steelheading, 7'6" is the starting length for most companies Steelhead casting rods.

Your rod is a 90 inches long and appears top be about a Medium-Light. Here is some info from Shimano on one of their 90" Steelhead/Salmon casting rods...

CEC90ML2

Classic drift fishing technique using roe, sand shrimp, corkies and yarn.

There are real Steelhead runs all along the West Coast, perhaps on some of their rivers they use different techniques and equipment than we see in Ontario.

Last word these are on sale at the Hard Rock Cafe....

Can I find them in Stoney Creek?

I think what you own is a Steelhead rod.

The softness of the rod is to protect light line.

You might also use it for live bait or casting crankbaits of the appropriate weigh.

Trout ponds in Arizona, I never would have imagined.....

There are hundreds of miles of irrigation canals. Most have fish in them. In the larger cities there are parks with ponds for fishing and water play etc.

These ponds generally have bass, and are stocked with Channel Cat's during the 10 hot months. In the "winter" many of these recreation areas are stocked with Rainbows.

There is no carry over because the trout die once the water temperature gets too high.

The pond near my place is out in the desert, and the Osprey catch as many of the trout as the locals, but it's all good fun.

Hey Garry, I have been using the Sufix 832 braid all season now.

I wonder what the cost of it will be to other braids? Has anyone seen it for sale in stores yet?

 

For those that want to check out the braid: Sufix 832

Thanks for the additional information Aaron.

The US retail is slightly higher than Powerpro/Fireline et al.

I paid $19.99 at Tackle Warehouse. vs. about $13.99 or $14.99 for the others.

Here's a question...if you don't want to answer on the open board please PM me.

For a long time I have suspected that Sufix made at least some of Spiderwire and Berkley's braids. The reason for this is that they all seem to bring out new lines, with similar features, at the same time.

Since I suspect that Rapala/Sufix would try to tie-up the use of Gore-Fibre in fishing line before entering any agreement, and since Spider now has this new Gore line at the same time as 832, it strengthens my suspicions...any ideas?