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39 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

we’ve proven it 3 times in a row, lockdowns/stay at home orders work. 3 waves we’ve gone through and within a week case numbers begin to drop every single time. We are already dropping our cases in Ontario. And every time we get out of the lockdown our cases go up again.

see and i would say this is proof that they DON'T work. If they did, why did we need 3 of them? In my opinion, all lockdowns do is slow the inevitable. These stats prove it. A virus will do what a virus will do. You can't stay locked down forever (unless you are retired!). So THAT is what they should have done...."lock down" the vulnerable, and let others carry on with their lives. 

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5 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

see and i would say this is proof that they DON'T work. If they did, why did we need 3 of them? In my opinion, all lockdowns do is slow the inevitable. These stats prove it. A virus will do what a virus will do. You can't stay locked down forever (unless you are retired!). So THAT is what they should have done...."lock down" the vulnerable, and let others carry on with their lives. 

And end up with what happened in the United States with people dying at 2x the rate that Canadians did.

Curious, what number of dead people are you comfortable with?

we’re at just over 20,000 so we bump that to 40k? Funny that’s the same number of Canadians that died in world war 2...that’s acceptable?

Edited by AKRISONER
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So the US has a higher death rate...how do you know Canada will not catch up? The lockdowns slow things down...at the end of all this the death rates may actually be similar. We all will die some day (unless the world ends first!). In my work have first hand experience with all types of death. Almost every single covid death I have seen has been in people 80 and over...and almost every one of those, the family told me the person was in very poor health as it was. In other words, they were already near the end of their life. I think I have only seen one under the age of 70 (that person was 69, and also in poor health). So I am not "comfortable" with any death, but I do understand that death can not be beaten...it is inevitable. If I saw numerous younger people dying I would change my tune perhaps. But I have not seen that. What I HAVE seen is a ridiculous increase in overdose deaths during this pandemic...and I mean ridiculous...like more than one a week. For instance in the past month we have had one covid death (that person was over 90) but I have seen approx 10 overdose deaths, the oldest of those people was just over 50. THAT is a bigger issue than covid in my opinion. All deaths matter, but for us to think we can "beat" death, especially in people over 80, we are fooling ourselves.

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37 minutes ago, Ronzo said:

I was speaking with someone whose sister is a nurse last week, and she said it is indeed staffing that is the issue at this point. A great deal of training goes into being able to service ICU patients, and we don't have enough of those staffers to service the available beds.

The lady that was cutting my hair until a year ago was a retired ICU nurse and when the virus got out of control she gave up her haircutting business and went back into the ICU to help save live.

Darned impressive in my mind.

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2 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

Very impressive Lew. That is selfless right there!

Yes, and I told her that too.

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I hope more do as well! I expect more people took early retirement when they saw what was happening, so it is wonderful to hear about your "barber" doing the opposite. Probably means you have long scraggly covid hair now though.

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3 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

Probably means you have long scraggly covid hair now though.

Actually my barber had another lady working for her and when the shop closed down she opened her own shop at her farm so I go there now. Another nice thing about country living is sitting in a barber chair and having horses right outside the window watching what's going on  LOL

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2 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

This graph literally shows that large cities with high population density suffer severely with the disease (New York city and Los Angeles)

and places that disregard lockdowns/covid measures also have the most cases of disease (texas, Florida)

therefore directly proving that covid safety measures/lockdowns do work. There’s loads and loads of data out there showing how disregarding covid measures ie not wearing masks and not locking down at all had the most significant negative impact those populations. Conspiracy theorists love to point to outliers like New York and LA...the places that are most dense with the most multi cutural population ended up with the most cases of covid. Look at the stats on the west coast where the population density is similar and it’s not cold all winter and see what comes up when comparing to Florida and texas.

you’ll note the case’s per population are actually the lowest in the country aside from the middle grain belt states. Even California’s case count in relation to population is extremely low.
 

by the way, I don’t know what the hell kind of “severe” lockdowns you are referring to in california. Great, their measures were severe by texas and Florida standards but if you follow basically anyone in LA on Instagram (almost any celebrity) it sure as hell doesn’t appear like there were any severe lockdowns. You want to see those, look at New Zealand and Australia and how they handled their lockdowns and how effective they were. Australia has basically not been locked down since last summer.

as Bill pointed out, our lockdowns were implemented wrong, they allowed high powered businesses to disregard any measures and it really screwed up our system. Please don’t point to the United States as “the place that got it right” people quite literally died in the US at twice the rate of canada when looking at it comparison to their population. 570,000+  Dead now, That’s almost the entire population of New Brunswick. I would also argue that that number is severely understated because healthcare is not free. Heck a covid test in the United States cost $100+ so how can you tell me anything is accurate in regards to their figures. Furthermore you think the folks that live in poverty in the back woods of alabama and West Virginia are getting top notch medical care? 
 

another place that has no ability to lockdown simply due to population density and corruption is India. They opened everything up and look what’s happening, they are “reporting” 300,000 cases per day! Remember only the wealthiest of the population in that country receive medical care. You can only imagine how many people are actually infected in a place as unsanitary and densely populated.

we’ve proven it 3 times in a row, lockdowns/stay at home orders work. 3 waves we’ve gone through and within a week case numbers begin to drop every single time. We are already dropping our cases in Ontario. And every time we get out of the lockdown our cases go up again.

Touché. I’m going fishing 

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18 hours ago, msp said:

LA county California had the earliest and most strict lockdown measures in the entire country. Their deaths per capita were the same as New York.

The correlation between safety measures and outcomes is not there.

048EC61C-61EB-46DC-B102-245D457CE52C.jpeg

100% totally WRONG. California now has the lowest infection rate of any state

 

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...and for all the naysayers who say lockdowns are useless you are now proved wrong for the 3rd time.

Not only have we bent the curve but we have already bent it downwards. This will likely be the last lockdown unless we have new strains in the winter. People will then be able to get a booster shot. Vaccinations are working and we will come out of lockdown probably sooner then originally predicted. Get your jab. Protect yourself, do it for your country. Herd immunity works. Vaccinations gets us there super quick.

 

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/data-and-analysis/infectious-disease/covid-19-data-surveillance/covid-19-data-tool?tab=trends

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36 minutes ago, scuro2 said:

...and for all the naysayers who say lockdowns are useless you are now proved wrong for the 3rd time.

Not only have we bent the curve but we have already bent it downwards. This will likely be the last lockdown unless we have new strains in the winter. People will then be able to get a booster shot. Vaccinations are working and we will come out of lockdown probably sooner then originally predicted. Get your jab. Protect yourself, do it for your country. Herd immunity works. Vaccinations gets us there super quick.

 

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/data-and-analysis/infectious-disease/covid-19-data-surveillance/covid-19-data-tool?tab=trends

According to your link as of yesterday the case rate is 0 in Ontario. Is this what you are asserting?

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1 hour ago, jonasdry said:

You are linking to the total infections over the entire pandemic for California. If you want to know how a state is doing CURRENTLY look at the daily infection rate.

California's population is about the same as all of Canada. In Ontario alone we have a seven day moving average of 4000 new cases a day. California has about 1800 new cases today.

Please don't believe me, believe facts.
https://covid19.ca.gov/
 

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1 hour ago, jonasdry said:

According to your link as of yesterday the case rate is 0 in Ontario. Is this what you are asserting?

You are right that is not the best graph to show what is happening. To understand a graph sometimes you have to read the footnotes.
"Grey background: This area indicates days where data may change as a result of lags in case identification, reporting and/or data entry".

What should be looked at is the 7 day moving average

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-records-uptick-in-covid-19-cases-but-seven-day-average-continues-to-decline-1.5399558

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Arviat Nunavut is in the news today and they're having a little celebration.  Why are they celebrating???

Because Nunavut did lockdown last spring.  They closed their three borders tight and implemented two week quarantine periods in isolation hubs for any of their residents and non-essential employees looking to return the territory after being south.  Ottawa, Winnipeg and Yellowknife were the designated sites and throughout most of the year the quarantines worked.  Essential employees were also expected to answer to Public Health with regards to their own social distancing practices for the two weeks prior to travel into Nunavut.  On a small scale, something much easier to evaluate than international travel in and out of Canada, Nunavut represented very well what travel restriction, quarantine, isolation and being responsible can do to thwart the spread of Covid.

But then... a case did finally break through.  Nunavut being one of the last places on earth to see a first case, they were quick to act.  Sanikiluaq picked up the first couple cases of Covid, they identified the cases, did the contact tracing and locked the town down, especially isolating the positives.  Poof!!!! Like that, no Covid.  Then another person brought a case from Winnipeg into the airport at Rankin Inlet.  Passengers moving onward landed in Whale Cove and Arviat.  First positives identified, contact tracing complete and Poof!!!  Whale Cove and the bigger hub of Rankin locked it down, did the tracings, isolated the positives and reset their case numbers to zero.  Arviat on the other hand, being totally underserviced, one of the sickest populations in Canada and also the youngest, well... it took six weeks of hard work.  A public health emergency team was deployed there, the Chief Medical Officer traveled there as well and, within about 6 weeks with case numbers in the town of 3000 or so people reached over 300, a lockdown, some big efforts and isolation of the positive cases reset Arviat right back to zero.  Nowhere else in Canada has a case count affected about 10% of any single localized population within such a short time... Looking at Arviat and each other Nunavut community as a small scale version of what is to be the expected outcome of Covid case control, and, also looking at Nunavut's excellent border control as a whole, it's my view that lockdowns, Public Health efforts, healthcare efforts and personal protective practices can totally work.  The problem for the rest of Canada is, not everyone can easily get on board with it for many different reasons.  The one thing that I have found for certain is, that those people who could be on board but instead choose to whine, piss, whine, moan, complain and scream that it doesn't work, they are the biggest plague to bettering the health of Canadians and helping all just get through this.  

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41 minutes ago, Moosebunk said:

Arviat Nunavut is in the news today and they're having a little celebration.  Why are they celebrating???

Because Nunavut did lockdown last spring.  They closed their three borders tight and implemented two week quarantine periods in isolation hubs for any of their residents and non-essential employees looking to return the territory after being south.  Ottawa, Winnipeg and Yellowknife were the designated sites and throughout most of the year the quarantines worked.  Essential employees were also expected to answer to Public Health with regards to their own social distancing practices for the two weeks prior to travel into Nunavut.  On a small scale, something much easier to evaluate than international travel in and out of Canada, Nunavut represented very well what travel restriction, quarantine, isolation and being responsible can do to thwart the spread of Covid.

But then... a case did finally break through.  Nunavut being one of the last places on earth to see a first case, they were quick to act.  Sanikiluaq picked up the first couple cases of Covid, they identified the cases, did the contact tracing and locked the town down, especially isolating the positives.  Poof!!!! Like that, no Covid.  Then another person brought a case from Winnipeg into the airport at Rankin Inlet.  Passengers moving onward landed in Whale Cove and Arviat.  First positives identified, contact tracing complete and Poof!!!  Whale Cove and the bigger hub of Rankin locked it down, did the tracings, isolated the positives and reset their case numbers to zero.  Arviat on the other hand, being totally underserviced, one of the sickest populations in Canada and also the youngest, well... it took six weeks of hard work.  A public health emergency team was deployed there, the Chief Medical Officer traveled there as well and, within about 6 weeks with case numbers in the town of 3000 or so people reached over 300, a lockdown, some big efforts and isolation of the positive cases reset Arviat right back to zero.  Nowhere else in Canada has a case count affected about 10% of any single localized population within such a short time... Looking at Arviat and each other Nunavut community as a small scale version of what is to be the expected outcome of Covid case control, and, also looking at Nunavut's excellent border control as a whole, it's my view that lockdowns, Public Health efforts, healthcare efforts and personal protective practices can totally work.  The problem for the rest of Canada is, not everyone can easily get on board with it for many different reasons.  The one thing that I have found for certain is, that those people who could be on board but instead choose to whine, piss, whine, moan, complain and scream that it doesn't work, they are the biggest plague to bettering the health of Canadians and helping all just get through this.  

That looks like it can work in a microcosm,  where I'm sure not 10 of thousands drive hundreds of km's daily to transport the virus around.  One sneeze or well placed booger on a doorknob here will probably go rampant just by the population numbers. Yellowknife, 20k people approximately,  a mousefart worth of population compared to Canada's 3 major cities.

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33 minutes ago, Moosebunk said:

Arviat Nunavut is in the news today and they're having a little celebration.  Why are they celebrating???

Because Nunavut did lockdown last spring.  They closed their three borders tight and implemented two week quarantine periods in isolation hubs for any of their residents and non-essential employees looking to return the territory after being south.  Ottawa, Winnipeg and Yellowknife were the designated sites and throughout most of the year the quarantines worked.  Essential employees were also expected to answer to Public Health with regards to their own social distancing practices for the two weeks prior to travel into Nunavut.  On a small scale, something much easier to evaluate than international travel in and out of Canada, Nunavut represented very well what travel restriction, quarantine, isolation and being responsible can do to thwart the spread of Covid.

But then... a case did finally break through.  Nunavut being one of the last places on earth to see a first case, they were quick to act.  Sanikiluaq picked up the first couple cases of Covid, they identified the cases, did the contact tracing and locked the town down, especially isolating the positives.  Poof!!!! Like that, no Covid.  Then another person brought a case from Winnipeg into the airport at Rankin Inlet.  Passengers moving onward landed in Whale Cove and Arviat.  First positives identified, contact tracing complete and Poof!!!  Whale Cove and the bigger hub of Rankin locked it down, did the tracings, isolated the positives and reset their case numbers to zero.  Arviat on the other hand, being totally underserviced, one of the sickest populations in Canada and also the youngest, well... it took six weeks of hard work.  A public health emergency team was deployed there, the Chief Medical Officer traveled there as well and, within about 6 weeks with case numbers in the town of 3000 or so people reached over 300, a lockdown, some big efforts and isolation of the positive cases reset Arviat right back to zero.  Nowhere else in Canada has a case count affected about 10% of any single localized population within such a short time... Looking at Arviat and each other Nunavut community as a small scale version of what is to be the expected outcome of Covid case control, and, also looking at Nunavut's excellent border control as a whole, it's my view that lockdowns, Public Health efforts, healthcare efforts and personal protective practices can totally work.  The problem for the rest of Canada is, not everyone can easily get on board with it for many different reasons.  The one thing that I have found for certain is, that those people who could be on board but instead choose to whine, piss, whine, moan, complain and scream that it doesn't work, they are the biggest plague to bettering the health of Canadians and helping all just get through this.  

The people of the maritimes have also done well because they recognize that the health of one affects the health of all. They tend to respect and care for each other far more than the people of Ontario do. That being said the federal government allowed flights into Pearson from all over the world because they didn't want to offend anyone 🙄. The vaccine rollout is another nightmare altogether 

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For sure Pics.  As I quoted above...

" it's my view that lockdowns, Public Health efforts, healthcare efforts and personal protective practices can totally work.  The problem for the rest of Canada is, not everyone can easily get on board with it for many different reasons."

Many different reasons truly does include many different reasons.  :)

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56 minutes ago, pics said:

The people of the maritimes have also done well because they recognize that the health of one affects the health of all. They tend to respect and care for each other far more than the people of Ontario do. That being said the federal government allowed flights into Pearson from all over the world because they didn't want to offend anyone 🙄. The vaccine rollout is another nightmare altogether 

The new double mutant Covid variant is in BC...they can now halts flights coming in. :wallbash:

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1 hour ago, pics said:

The people of the maritimes have also done well because they recognize that the health of one affects the health of all. They tend to respect and care for each other far more than the people of Ontario do. That being said the federal government allowed flights into Pearson from all over the world because they didn't want to offend anyone 🙄. The vaccine rollout is another nightmare altogether 

I'm sure there are foreigners who complain and scream that it doesn't work, and pressure politicians to make an exception for flights from their country. My daughter's best friend is a border security guard and she said the real complainers are the snowbirds trying to get back into the country without quarantining now that summer is approaching.

....and then there is this, it turns out that the country that has exported the most infection into Canada is the USA. When you think about it that makes sense, the US was a train wreck. Currently they should do their best to keep us out of their country because our national daily infection rate is higher then theirs!!

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/u-s-the-biggest-source-of-covid-19-brought-into-canada-study-finds

Edited by scuro2
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9 hours ago, Rizzo said:

see and i would say this is proof that they DON'T work. If they did, why did we need 3 of them? In my opinion, all lockdowns do is slow the inevitable. These stats prove it. A virus will do what a virus will do. You can't stay locked down forever (unless you are retired!). So THAT is what they should have done...."lock down" the vulnerable, and let others carry on with their lives. 

1000000 percent, I've said that since the beginning protect the vulnerable and let most live their lives. They even said in the beginning that they were going to put an Iron ring around the retirement homes.

"" Numbers "" I don't believe they test 50-60 thousand people every day and have all the results back the next day and I don't believe for a second they aren't screwing with the numbers each time to have more of less cases. It seems like they've tested the entire population of the province a number of times so far.  I believe it is a real virus and is killing, but have lost all confidence I did have in any Politician or government. Everyone saying outdoor activities are fine, gee lets close outdoor activities. It's all a spin all the time every time they talk and I hate it all. 

They had been talking about a 2nd and 3rd wave forever but did nothing to prepare for it. What pisses me off more is a few weeks ago they seemed soooooo surprised with the numbers they were getting and the variant taking off when they had been projecting 10k cases a day for months and months and months and were always wayyyyyyy off.  Left borders open for the very variant that we are dealing with now and the double double triple mutant is already here. How Trudeau is even allowed to still govern is amazing.

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43 minutes ago, LefroyFisherman said:

1000000 percent, I've said that since the beginning protect the vulnerable and let most live their lives. They even said in the beginning that they were going to put an Iron ring around the retirement homes.

If only it were so simple. How do totally isolate the vulnerable and those in the retirement homes? You have diabetes and you are not going to see your kids for 13 months?? Both groups you speak of have contact with "those living their lives". Even within our family I told my girls if they want to come live at home they have to do a 10 day quarantine...my one daughter spent the last few days isolated in my house and then I learned that she didn't start her quarantine when she said she did. Those workers in the retirement homes are the same, you know that there were instances where they didn't self report symptoms.

Edited by scuro2
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