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Marinas cannot be used for recreational boating


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1 hour ago, AKRISONER said:

Theres quite literally only 1,200 ICU beds in Ontario

I am no expert, so just did a google search. The CP24 site that I looked at said 2300 ICU beds...almost double what your source says. Did a second search and also came up with 2300 beds from that site. 

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14 hours ago, Musky Plug said:

 As far as ICUs being full they aren’t. Same Bull over and over. Last year this time my father was in the hospital with health complications and media was blowing up saying the icus were full. I went to icu and Covid unit at the hospital where he was staying. Ghost town. 

I was admitted to the ICU/Critical Care unit at the Brantford hospital a few weeks ago. It was full to the nuts with individuals parked in the hallway being cared for. There may be a time they are not full but according to staff in the Critical Care unit where I was 2 weeks ago they are full, having an open bed does hapen but 99% of the time they are full and at times overflowing. 

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A freind of ours owns a very small, (12 slips) marina here on the lake we live on. It is not open to the public, mostly used to get his residence boats in and out. He does not charge to use the ramp. The call is out to the Ministry of Who knows What, if his freinds can use the ramp? So far we have gotten a no from a OPP beat cop and a few maybe yes from our MPP's office. In the mean time I am going to use it when we decide it's time to fish. Having said that I hear complaints not just here but in the general public how tough it is not to be able to take the kids fishing. Please, what a sacrifice it is to follow what the scientists recommend to try and kill this thing we all face. Got my 1st shot of Astra Zenica yesterday. In and out thank you m,9e. For those that are qeuzzy about getting poked, I didn't feel a thing, nothing, not even a Bee sting. I had to get a blood thinner shot in the thigh everyday for a week not long ago, that my dear freinds hurt like an SOAB. It was an 8 out of 10, 8 being if it lasted any longer you would go into shock, it hurt real bad but not the C-19 vaccine. I wouldn't wish that pain on my worse enemy.

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2 hours ago, Rizzo said:

I am no expert, so just did a google search. The CP24 site that I looked at said 2300 ICU beds...almost double what your source says. Did a second search and also came up with 2300 beds from that site. 

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13054-015-0852-6.pdf
 

note icu beds capable of invasive ventilation 1,122

 

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49 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13054-015-0852-6.pdf
 

note icu beds capable of invasive ventilation 1,122

that is an article from 2015. Every current stat I have found puts beds with ventilators over 2000. The bigger issue that I am reading about is the staffing, rather than the equipment (currently). Again, could be wrong, but I think the information in that link is outdated

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8 hours ago, Fisherman said:

Why don't they start using those ICU tents so patients with other critical diseases can be helped.

They actually activated the parking lot ICU at Jo Brant about 2 weeks ago and moved all the non-oxygen requiring patients from the ICU into it. Jo Brant's real ICU is at 50% bed capacity because of Covid isolation requirements from the province/feds.

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20 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

I was admitted to the ICU/Critical Care unit at the Brantford hospital a few weeks ago. It was full to the nuts with individuals parked in the hallway being cared for. There may be a time they are not full but according to staff in the Critical Care unit where I was 2 weeks ago they are full, having an open bed does hapen but 99% of the time they are full and at times overflowing. 

The ICU's have always been full. Well before Covid. The Emerg has always been FULL, well before covid. I dislocated my hip 15 years ago and woke up in the public hallway back then, so this is NOTHING new to hospitals and our healthcare system. 

Our govt has never been accountable for the joke we call a health care system in Ontario. Understaffed for as long as I can even remember. 

S. 

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On 4/19/2021 at 12:55 PM, Pigeontroller said:

What if you get in an accident on the way to your 'essential' fishing trip? ICUs are almost full? What then? Its called a 'Stay at Home order' for a reason. Think of others, not yourself. Not an easy thing for us North Americans to do but its important. Fishing can wait a bit. The Lakes will still be there in a month. My boats back on axle stands till at least May 20th. I'm not happy about it but its the RIGHT THING TO DO. Try it.

If you think this in ending in a month I think you better be prepared to have the boat on stands for much longer than that. With this logic, are you allowed to ride your ATV?  Go hunting? Drive anywhere in your car other than to get food, booze, or go to work? Can I do curbside pickup for a project in the backyard to keep me sane? Lots of ways to end up in the ICU..... but towing my boat to a ramp to go fishing by myself is a highly unlikely one. Much more danger in the trees I was cutting down over the weekend.... should I have not done that on my own property because of a risk of going to the hospital?

 I have been thinking about other people for a year now.... that doesn't mean I should be robbed of doing outside activities that in no way show any data to rising case numbers. 

Is there another place in NORTH AMERICA that has Boat Launches and Golf Courses closed based on nothing? Its ridiculous.

 

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6 hours ago, Sinker said:

The ICU's have always been full. Well before Covid. The Emerg has always been FULL, well before covid. I dislocated my hip 15 years ago and woke up in the public hallway back then, so this is NOTHING new to hospitals and our healthcare system. 

Our govt has never been accountable for the joke we call a health care system in Ontario. Understaffed for as long as I can even remember. 

S. 

Mother in law broke her ankle falling down the stairs at my place ten years ago.  We sat in the hallway all night.  That was mid summer.  I agree, they could of spent a lot of this money preemptively addressing healthcare issues.  That would’ve gone a long way towards helping us respond to serious medical emergencies when they come up rather than playing catch up. 

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1 hour ago, BassMan11 said:

If you think this in ending in a month I think you better be prepared to have the boat on stands for much longer than that. With this logic, are you allowed to ride your ATV?  Go hunting? Drive anywhere in your car other than to get food, booze, or go to work? Can I do curbside pickup for a project in the backyard to keep me sane? Lots of ways to end up in the ICU..... but towing my boat to a ramp to go fishing by myself is a highly unlikely one. Much more danger in the trees I was cutting down over the weekend.... should I have not done that on my own property because of a risk of going to the hospital?

 I have been thinking about other people for a year now.... that doesn't mean I should be robbed of doing outside activities that in no way show any data to rising case numbers. 

Is there another place in NORTH AMERICA that has Boat Launches and Golf Courses closed based on nothing? Its ridiculous.

 

You raise many fair points.  There is a balancing act for how long we can “protect the vulnerable” vs crashing everything else.  There are also many other health costs that will be associated with this once the final tally is in and they won’t all be physical.  I don’t deny there is a serious health concern with corona.   But the Groundhog Day response our politicians have taken is completely unsustainable And completely lacks imagination.  Further, I find the bulk of support for it  is in the retired, work from home, or otherwise financially comfortable set.  And I can be right with them if I want to be.  My career path is not going out of demand, and my Wife is a teacher.  We aren’t suffering financially in any respect. If anything I could’ve made a pile of OT this year if I wanted to.  But I find it loathsome money and won’t touch it.  I think a lot of those in support haven’t been touched by the realities of many.    Anyway we are where we are. At least some of these towns are opening their launches so there is some hope.

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We were allowed to go ATV riding in small 5 person groups last year,  unfortunately the trails don't open up legally until 1 May if the drying process continues.

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19 hours ago, Fisherman said:

We were allowed to go ATV riding in small 5 person groups last year,  unfortunately the trails don't open up legally until 1 May if the drying process continues.

All things are pointing to them opening with no restrictions other than the standard "covid Protocols" this year too. 

S. 

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29 minutes ago, Fisherman said:

Just got some more good news, looks like our township is going to open most of the roads.  At least we can ride to the trails instead of trailering.

We are fighting that battle in my area right now. I'm 13km from the Ganaraska forest, and can't ride there on an ORV. Snowmobiles are Ok. 

S. 

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On 4/21/2021 at 12:50 PM, glen said:

Sinker, every time you post I agree.  

Thank you.  

Just a bit of common sense. If only our "leaders" had some eh? GRRR

 

S. 

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52 minutes ago, Sinker said:

We are fighting that battle in my area right now. I'm 13km from the Ganaraska forest, and can't ride there on an ORV. Snowmobiles are Ok. 

S. 

That was always my sour point, snowmobiles zooming around all over but ATV's were stuck to trails, well looks like they're getting on line with all the other surrounding townships.  Right now our trails can run from here to Owen Sound.  One more link and we can go all the way up to Waubushene.

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How come it’s okay for people in our country to fill themselves with fast food, cigarettes and alcohol and the become overweight with cardio vascular disease or cancer? 
But they deserve a bed in ICU? 
At the beginning of this pandemic we should have focussed on creating a healthy lifestyle for ourselves. Instead we close the gyms, lock ourselves up and drive ourselves stir crazy. 
look at the stats in the US. Lockdowns don’t work. 
 

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24 minutes ago, msp said:

How come it’s okay for people in our country to fill themselves with fast food, cigarettes and alcohol and the become overweight with cardio vascular disease or cancer? 
But they deserve a bed in ICU? 
At the beginning of this pandemic we should have focussed on creating a healthy lifestyle for ourselves. Instead we close the gyms, lock ourselves up and drive ourselves stir crazy. 
look at the stats in the US. Lockdowns don’t work. 
 

The U.S. resisted lock downs and had the most cases and deaths in the world; and among the worst on a per-capita basis.  I am not seeing how that proves that lock downs don't work; however, I can see it being used as a pretty strong arguement for the exact opposite.

They are doing better now that many of their people have been vaccinated.  That doesn't mean that lock downs don't work, it means that vaccines do work.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, John Bacon said:

The U.S. resisted lock downs and had the most cases and deaths in the world; and among the worst on a per-capita basis.  I am not seeing how that proves that lock downs don't work; however, I can see it being used as a pretty strong arguement for the exact opposite.

They are doing better now that many of their people have been vaccinated.  That doesn't mean that lock downs don't work, it means that vaccines do work.

 

 

LA county California had the earliest and most strict lockdown measures in the entire country. Their deaths per capita were the same as New York.

The correlation between safety measures and outcomes is not there. 
hiding behind masks and lockdowns is not the answer. Vaccinations may be a short term solution but improving our resilience would most likely be the best path forward. 
I am glad that this thread is not locked yet because we are having some really good debate on this and I am happy to hear the opinions from everyone in here. 
I hope we can all get through this 

048EC61C-61EB-46DC-B102-245D457CE52C.jpeg

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Lockdowns would work if they did them properly.   It only took them a year to stop flights coming in from India and other high Covid areas...

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14 hours ago, msp said:

LA county California had the earliest and most strict lockdown measures in the entire country. Their deaths per capita were the same as New York.

The correlation between safety measures and outcomes is not there. 
hiding behind masks and lockdowns is not the answer. Vaccinations may be a short term solution but improving our resilience would most likely be the best path forward. 
I am glad that this thread is not locked yet because we are having some really good debate on this and I am happy to hear the opinions from everyone in here. 
I hope we can all get through this 

048EC61C-61EB-46DC-B102-245D457CE52C.jpeg

This graph literally shows that large cities with high population density suffer severely with the disease (New York city and Los Angeles)

and places that disregard lockdowns/covid measures also have the most cases of disease (texas, Florida)

therefore directly proving that covid safety measures/lockdowns do work. There’s loads and loads of data out there showing how disregarding covid measures ie not wearing masks and not locking down at all had the most significant negative impact those populations. Conspiracy theorists love to point to outliers like New York and LA...the places that are most dense with the most multi cutural population ended up with the most cases of covid. Look at the stats on the west coast where the population density is similar and it’s not cold all winter and see what comes up when comparing to Florida and texas.

you’ll note the case’s per population are actually the lowest in the country aside from the middle grain belt states. Even California’s case count in relation to population is extremely low.
 

by the way, I don’t know what the hell kind of “severe” lockdowns you are referring to in california. Great, their measures were severe by texas and Florida standards but if you follow basically anyone in LA on Instagram (almost any celebrity) it sure as hell doesn’t appear like there were any severe lockdowns. You want to see those, look at New Zealand and Australia and how they handled their lockdowns and how effective they were. Australia has basically not been locked down since last summer.

as Bill pointed out, our lockdowns were implemented wrong, they allowed high powered businesses to disregard any measures and it really screwed up our system. Please don’t point to the United States as “the place that got it right” people quite literally died in the US at twice the rate of canada when looking at it comparison to their population. 570,000+  Dead now, That’s almost the entire population of New Brunswick. I would also argue that that number is severely understated because healthcare is not free. Heck a covid test in the United States cost $100+ so how can you tell me anything is accurate in regards to their figures. Furthermore you think the folks that live in poverty in the back woods of alabama and West Virginia are getting top notch medical care? 
 

another place that has no ability to lockdown simply due to population density and corruption is India. They opened everything up and look what’s happening, they are “reporting” 300,000 cases per day! Remember only the wealthiest of the population in that country receive medical care. You can only imagine how many people are actually infected in a place as unsanitary and densely populated.

we’ve proven it 3 times in a row, lockdowns/stay at home orders work. 3 waves we’ve gone through and within a week case numbers begin to drop every single time. We are already dropping our cases in Ontario. And every time we get out of the lockdown our cases go up again.

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On 4/20/2021 at 4:02 PM, Rizzo said:

that is an article from 2015. Every current stat I have found puts beds with ventilators over 2000. The bigger issue that I am reading about is the staffing, rather than the equipment (currently). Again, could be wrong, but I think the information in that link is outdated

I was speaking with someone whose sister is a nurse last week, and she said it is indeed staffing that is the issue at this point. A great deal of training goes into being able to service ICU patients, and we don't have enough of those staffers to service the available beds.

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