Thinking of buying a fishing lodge....need help!

[birddogman99]

Starting the process of fulfilling a life long dream in buying a fishing lodge and I am hoping this list can help me with some research. I would be interested in your hearing your responses to the following five questions. If can indicate whether you are someone who has gone once or many times to a lodge.....or as someone who is thinking about going to a lodge for the first time.....or maybe you are either a current or past lodge owner.

 

1. American Plan versus Housekeeping. What are your thoughts on these two options....is the modified American Plan a good in between option (you cook breakfast and lunch....eat dinner at the lodge).

 

2. Fly Inn versus Boat inn versus drive to. Thoughts? I know fly in is expensive...but is the over all experience worth it? Is boat in a good in between option? Or is the ease of a drive in lodge (even if the fishing is not the greatest) the way to go?

 

3. Boats....16 foot aluminum boats with pull start and hard bench seats....versus 18 foot electric starts with casting platform, livewell, padded seats. Is it worth a few extra dollars for the upgrade to the bigger more comfortable boat worth it? What about cedar strip? Does a bit of nostalgia/history make the trip more memorable?

 

4. Guides...have you used them? Are they important....or is simply a good map and suggestions on hot spots the way to be.

 

5. Repeat clientele...or like to move around. If you go to a lodge and have an positive experience..do you repeat going to that Lodge or do you still look for other places to switch things up.

 

I appreciate any and all advice, comments, thoughts, etc. Thanks in advance.....and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future.

 

 

[Big Cliff]

Well first off welcome to the board and I like your handle, I was owned by a GSP for many years.

 

To answer your questions as best I can:

 

I have only been on one fly-in but guided for several years back in my younger days (a long time ago)

 

On my trip I chose house keeping because I wanted the freedom to eat what I wanted when I wanted, the idea of having to be back at a lodge for supper right in the middle of a good bite didn't appeal to me.

 

I chose fly-in because I wanted something remote for my son and I, no cell phones, no internet, and no one else around to bother us.

 

We had 14' aluminum boats with 9.9 pull start and padded swivel seats (two per boat) which was quite adequate for the lake we were fishing, It was a smaller lake, we didn't have long runs from our camp to get fishing, and we didn't have to worry about rough water. A cedar strip boat requires maintenance, an aluminum not so much.

 

Guides; I think are important especially if you are fishing big water or in something like the French River system where there are numerous hazards. In our case some very basic knowledge and a good map was all that was required.

 

Repeat or move around; well I have only ever done one fly-in and I won't be going back there but there are a few reasons for that. In the past though when i have gone on holidays and found a place I really like I tend to go back to where I'm comfortable rather than explore and take a chance.

 

Hope this helps, good luck!

[Garnet]

You need to hit other areas bird watching,mountain biking, road biking, hiking. The more areas you can serve to more success/clients.

[bigugli]

Guides are a big plus. Diversifying what you offer in activities over more than one season . Diversify the food plan to not only offer American or housekeeping plans. Throw in a weekly fish fry or pig roast

[firebird]

Starting the process of fulfilling a life long dream in buying a fishing lodge and I am hoping this list can help me with some research. I would be interested in your hearing your responses to the following five questions. If can indicate whether you are someone who has gone once or many times to a lodge.....or as someone who is thinking about going to a lodge for the first time.....or maybe you are either a current or past lodge owner.

 

1. American Plan versus Housekeeping. What are your thoughts on these two options....is the modified American Plan a good in between option (you cook breakfast and lunch....eat dinner at the lodge).

 

2. Fly Inn versus Boat inn versus drive to. Thoughts? I know fly in is expensive...but is the over all experience worth it? Is boat in a good in between option? Or is the ease of a drive in lodge (even if the fishing is not the greatest) the way to go?

 

3. Boats....16 foot aluminum boats with pull start and hard bench seats....versus 18 foot electric starts with casting platform, livewell, padded seats. Is it worth a few extra dollars for the upgrade to the bigger more comfortable boat worth it? What about cedar strip? Does a bit of nostalgia/history make the trip more memorable?

 

4. Guides...have you used them? Are they important....or is simply a good map and suggestions on hot spots the way to be.

 

5. Repeat clientele...or like to move around. If you go to a lodge and have an positive experience..do you repeat going to that Lodge or do you still look for other places to switch things up.

 

I appreciate any and all advice, comments, thoughts, etc. Thanks in advance.....and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future.

 

 

 

1- Most places have both european and american plans available, or a mix like you suggested. So its pretty standard

2- As for how you get there, what kind of operation do YOU want to run and your geographical location will support what you can do. Open all year for snowmobiles, just fly in fishing/hunting, or a nice little place for motorcycle/car tourists to spend a night in the summer??

3- Id stick with the small boats, some guys have leases and deals with the local marina on boats and motors, trading in regular

4- Thats up to your clientele, Id have someone available to call if a guides required (who knows his stuff), sometimes I've run into older people who just want someone to drive the boat and do the labour not so much be a fishing pro.

5- Id say that 60%+ are repeat customers, and they book next years vacation before they leave.

 

Go on a couple trips and get some ideas.

 

Ive seen a resort run that was supported by people on driving tours and sightseeing, they would stay maybe 2 nights and move on. There was a big lodge and a restaurant, some small cabins. A couple boats- fishing was not the attraction. They were also closed in the winter.

 

Ive worked for drive in/boat in/ and fly in only operations. Some the only thing that was good was the fishing! lol Others run a great operation with everything in tip top shape and killer fishing and hunting.

 

IMO don't spread yourself too thin- Pick one thing and do it better than your competition. If you have 6lb walleye or 50" pike advertise the hell out of it and thats what you do. If your cabins have a sauna and hot tub with a masseuse advertise that! If you have 400lb bears you better have 50 bait sights, etc

Edited July 10, 2017 by firebird

[OhioFisherman]

Starting the process of fulfilling a life long dream in buying a fishing lodge and I am hoping this list can help me with some research. I would be interested in your hearing your responses to the following five questions. If can indicate whether you are someone who has gone once or many times to a lodge.....or as someone who is thinking about going to a lodge for the first time.....or maybe you are either a current or past lodge owner.

 

1. American Plan versus Housekeeping. What are your thoughts on these two options....is the modified American Plan a good in between option (you cook breakfast and lunch....eat dinner at the lodge).

 

It's going to be pretty hard to please everyone, so choices are good? I always stayed at housekeeping camps, I was on vacation and didn't want to have to keep to a schedule, like scheduled meals. Stop fishing to eat? Tyranny! LOL

 

2. Fly Inn versus Boat inn versus drive to. Thoughts? I know fly in is expensive...but is the over all experience worth it? Is boat in a good in between option? Or is the ease of a drive in lodge (even if the fishing is not the greatest) the way to go?

 

Drive in for me, and I had limits on how much driving distance I was willing to be involved in, 500 miles was about it, there are plenty of fish waiting to be caught within 500 miles of here. Just a change in scenery and expectations.

 

3. Boats....16 foot aluminum boats with pull start and hard bench seats....versus 18 foot electric starts with casting platform, livewell, padded seats. Is it worth a few extra dollars for the upgrade to the bigger more comfortable boat worth it? What about cedar strip? Does a bit of nostalgia/history make the trip more memorable?

 

Are you intent on catering to families? A couple of guys might be good with a basic 16 footer, a family of 4 might like a bigger boat? Get the family in one boat with a bit more comfort? Especially if women and kids are involved?

 

4. Guides...have you used them? Are they important....or is simply a good map and suggestions on hot spots the way to be.

 

Never used a guide, part of the challenge for me, finding fish, others need results?

 

5. Repeat clientele...or like to move around. If you go to a lodge and have an positive experience..do you repeat going to that Lodge or do you still look for other places to switch things up.

 

I went to the same area, a couple different camps for 25 years, changes of camps were basically dependent on me and the guys fishing or my wife and kids expectations of comfort.

 

I appreciate any and all advice, comments, thoughts, etc. Thanks in advance.....and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future.

 

 

[manitoubass2]

I'll get hated on for this, but I planned on the same thing for years

 

If money isn't a problem, good stuff. Just pick a great location, with awesome fishing and great cabins

 

If money IS an issue, get an Aboriginal partner(route I was going to take)

 

Make sure your business plan is really strong and put alot of planning together. I think mine is 42 pages

 

You REALLY NEED TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH THOROUGHLY

[DanD]

#1 I/we never wanted an american or a modified american plan. I want to eat what and when I want. So for me housekeeping cabin/cottage is what I look for; when searching for a new place.

 

#2 I've been to drive in, boat in and fly ins . It depends on what our needs and wants are when we're planing a trip.

The place we've been going to for the past 5 years; is a drive to with-in an hours distance of a hospital. My brother has been fighting cancer and we need to plan for an emergency. The last fly-in we were on, he was in remission and got the green light from the doctor; we've not been so lucky the past few years. He's not able to go on the trip this year; but he's still fighting!

 

#3 16 foot aluminum boat with electric start, 20-25 hp 4 stroke, bilge pump, nav lights, basic graph, trolling motor, pivoting cushion seats and a floor.

That IMO is the ideal small lake/river fishing machine and is the description of the rental boat we use at the lodge, we go to.

 

#4 Only ever hired a guide once; that was a few days into our trip to a new to us lake and we where not having much luck finding fish.

Guess what; he took us to all the same spots where we had already been and still no real fish to be had. All we got from the guide was "you guys should have been here last week". LOL

 

#5 If we find a place with decent fishing, the accommodations and equipment are OK and the lodge owners treat you decent; we stay put and re-book for the next year's trip. We usually will make the decision to look elsewhere, if one of the requirements fail two years in a row.

 

Dan.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

I would say if you won the lottery go for it and hire a huge staff of young workers. Running a lodge is a lot like being a criminal, you don't start late in life and you won't learn it in school. Also like roofers, it's a young mans gig. It would be my last choice for a business really, especially as a retiree. I have seen many times an individual would like to make his or her hobby a business. It doesn't work out often. But you didn't ask for that advise, sorry.

 

Now having giving you my why not's I do like you are making a plan. In any business you can not be all things to all customers. Some can't boil water and for some half the fun is putting on great spreads and showing off your culinary skills, that would be us when younger. Now I want to be comfortable, big screen sat TV, AC, the works. A nice big boat, no 14'ers these days. 1 day on the water in a tinny and I'm done like dinner. Now if some of us old pharts plan a trip we are bringing along a few 20 somethings all full of phis and vinegar. It all depends on who you see as your clientele. Well off middle to older age sports fishermen or young working guys, and gals willing to ruff it a tad. It is difficult to cater to both in my experience.

[Lord Letto]

I've Only Gone With Family & Never Organized the Trip, But Here's My Experience & Thoughts:

 

1: The Places we went to, We Had to get our own Grocerys & Cook our Meals, No Roomservice or Restaurant, If I Were to have a Lodge, I'd Likely have a Small Restaurant as part of it if people decide not to cook, but if people wanted to Cook their own meals in their Cabins, they could.

 

2: Both Places were Drive in for my Family, For us that's the Best option, but if Drive in Wasn't a Option, then I'd say boat in, Maybe offer a Pick up Service or maybe have the Boat the Person/Group would be Renting available at a nearby Marina they can Drive to so They can Load it up & go to the Lodge, Unless they Own a Boat so they won't need to rent one, Just Launch & Go.

 

3: Both Places had 14 & 16' Aluminum Boats, 1 place had the Option of 9.9HP & 20HP Engines (Had to Pay Extra if you wanted the 20HP), the other only had 15HP Engines, All Had Electric Start & the 1 place with 2 engine options only had bench seats & nothing Really Extra on the Boat, the place with 15HP Only had like 4 Plastic Unpadded Folding Swivel Seats Mounted to the Benches & there was a Electric Bilge Pump on the Boat. Those are OK I Think but if Bigger Boats With more Options were Available for a Extra Cost, Then I Think that would be a Good Idea Also, Have some options for People to Chose From Based on their Budget.

 

4: Never Used a Guide & I Don't think there was a Option at the Lodge/Camp to get one, at least not Mentioned on the Site, But if it's a Option for a Fair Price, Some People may like that, More so if it's a Area they're nor Familiar with.

 

5: If we had a Good Experience We'd Likely go Back For Sure, Providing we have good Contact with them to Rebook the Following Year, If We Don't get any Reply back from them when the time comes then we'll likely try elsewhere.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Lord Letto

[aplumma]

I think your best bet to get the answers is to visit a few lodges as a customer and talk to the owners during the week. You actually need to see how much effort or man power it takes to make the part the customers see and make them feel good . One lodge had a dock mate who made sure that the boats were dry, fueled and baited before the customers woke up. It was a real nice touch and the owners were told how great it was. The truth was it was the dock mate who decided to set those standards and the rest of the place was in the dumper. Another lodge hosted a fish fry and a local band one night a week. There door was never closed and they will do anything you need kind of a family atmosphere. They work hard and have a great repeat business. The time they are not helping customers they are improving the camp both during and after the season. The amount of work they do is amazing only because they want to be there with a different group of friends arriving each week. It does not matter that the fishery is not as great as it was in the past and if he has time he will take the time to fish with different people at no charge in his muske boat and if it is to busy he will always circle a few places on his map for you to try. Now this camp they bought was defunked and had a bad reputation but their love of the life and the people made it a success. I guess I am saying make sure you are the right person for the job and make sure you understand what the job truly is. A lodge owner that can not truly make me feel like I am his friend and he wants me there for more than money will fail. I have been to many lodges and that is the difference between returning or look elsewhere for a lodge.

 

Art

[Old Ironmaker]

Well put Art. I just did the math. 35 years of 2 weeks a year average. From ice fishing in Finland to off shore in the Florida Keys. That's over 70 weeks of fishing slash Golf weeks. The last thing I would want is the workload and hours I have seen outfitters put in.

[grimsbylander]

I wanted to own and operate a fishing lodge but decided I like fishing too much.

[firebird]

I wanted to own and operate a fishing lodge but decided I like fishing too much.

 

Yes very true

[birddogman99]

hey gang....thanks so much for the comments....keep them coming.

 

a couple of responses..... while I said...semi retire... rest assured I still have a few years left in me. I am 48 years old. I'm fortunately to have my own business that I plan on taking summers off from starting in a year or two....allowing me to generate income but allowing me to run the lodge operation during the summer.

 

secondly...long hours don't bother me....as a self employed person, I work 12 to 16 hours a day now....my idea is to do that during the summers for my lodge. and while I'm sure fishing time will be a premium but I'm confident that I will find a couple hours here and there.

 

as for money....it is always a concern....but having "off lodge" income will be a relief....all I'm looking for is that the lodge comes close to covering itself.

 

I appreciate the comments about trying to have a diverse clientele....i believe I have an idea that answers that.

 

again...thanks again...keep them coming.

[woodenboater]

I may be wrong, but I think the MAP is going the way of the dodo as most, including me, prefer housekeeping and our own meal schedule. Depending on size of water, a 14' shld be fine but a 16 would be more practical. Pull or electric start is a coin toss.

 

Drive to lodge would be more attractive if others in the party want something else to do beside washing lures. Or go grocery shopping. or beer run. you get the picture.

 

Imho, this is more than a summer venture as it requires work pre-season opener and post. As was suggested, visit a variety of lodges and see how their operations run and what owning a lodge really entails.

 

good luck !

Edited July 11, 2017 by woodenboater

[John]

Hi Birddogman and welcome. A lot of us on this site have had experience at different lodges, camps and remote outpost cabins. My initial thought is think about the amount of work both in season and off season and multiply it by 3 or 4 and then you might have an idea of what is involved. The off season work is often longer hours and more involved than in season. Docks, cabins, boats all need maintenance and that's assuming you buy a turnkey operation that needs little work to begin with. As Art says we have seen a lot. From operators that do little or nothing in maintenance and slowly lose business until the light goes on and they realize that they no longer have a viable operation, to those that spend countless hours 12 months a year improving and marketing their operation. Repeat clientele...is really up to you. Again, we have seen operations that were failing badly be taken over and within 2-3 years have large repeat business with clients booking for the next year when they check out.

AP appeals to a smaller percentage of the population and the work involved to provide it is large, unless you are a masochistic chef... .

 

I love cedar strip boats, the way they handle etc, BUT they involve a large amount of work to maintain. Most lodges and camps are changing over to 16' aluminums.

 

Don't want to sound negative in any way. This was a dream of mine many years ago but my head had to rule my heart at the time. You will need to dedicate yourself to it 24/7 to make it work, unless of course you are independently wealthy and are just looking for a hobby.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[manitoubass2]

[quote name="John" post="1008677" timestamp="

 

Don't want to sound negative in any way. This was a dream of mine many years ago but my head had to rule my heart at the time. You will need to dedicate yourself to it 24/7 to make it work, unless of course you are independently wealthy and are just looking for a hobby.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

Yep, me too. I even had a secure loan($750,000 forgiveable and $310,000 grant)

 

Still couldn't pull the trigger

[John]

Yep, me too. I even had a secure loan($750,000 forgiveable and $310,000 grant)

 

Still couldn't pull the trigger

 

What were the terms of the loan(s)? I assume you had to commit to certain covenants? I think that unless the terms were too restrictive I might have swallowed hard and pulled the trigger...

[manitoubass2]

 

What were the terms of the loan(s)? I assume you had to commit to certain covenants? I think that unless the terms were too restrictive I might have swallowed hard and pulled the trigger...

The "forgiveable loans" sounded sweet. Break even after three years and I only owed, 10% if I remember correctly????

 

Problem was the camp I wanted to buy went to crap quickly during the 2 year process of planning/negotiating etc

 

Only reason I could get the loan/grant was because my partner is indiginous

 

Also in my plan I had to hire 10 summer students from the Rez every year.

 

Really nothing restrictive, but a lil over a million is not that much to rebuild/maintain a lodge as well as costs of operating

Edited July 11, 2017 by manitoubass2

[manitoubass2]

Wait, now that I think back I got the numbers skewed.

 

$750000 loan, and the grant was 20% of that basically to cover the down payment

 

Now, the lodge itself (6 cabins) was $500,000

 

Add repairs and it would eat up money quick

 

That's even before I establish a clientele or advertise

 

The way I worked it out, it would be a miracle to break even after 3 years and if I didn't I owed that $750000 in full with interest

 

Basically, no thanks

 

I'd rather do what my cousin did

 

Bought a plot of land, built two cabins, operated super cheap, turned money over into a few more cabins through the years, established clientele.

 

Now his lodge is really nice, but hardly anyone fishes there lol. It's more a "vacation" spot on the north arm of rainy lake

 

He also had a few perks. Family worked on the lodge building for food and beer.

 

And his his bro, my other couze, owned a barge to haul material

 

It's a beaut now!

 

Called camp narrows

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by manitoubass2

[John Bacon]

Wait, now that I think back I got the numbers skewed.

 

$750000 loan, and the grant was 20% of that basically to cover the down payment

 

Now, the lodge itself (6 cabins) was $500,000

 

Add repairs and it would eat up money quick

 

That's even before I establish a clientele or advertise

 

The way I worked it out, it would be a miracle to break even after 3 years and if I didn't I owed that $750000 in full with interest

 

Basically, no thanks

 

I'd rather do what my cousin did

 

Bought a plot of land, built two cabins, operated super cheap, turned money over into a few more cabins through the years, established clientele.

 

Now his lodge is really nice, but hardly anyone fishes there lol. It's more a "vacation" spot on the north arm of rainy lake

 

He also had a few perks. Family worked on the lodge building for food and beer.

 

And his his bro, my other couze, owned a barge to haul material

 

It's a beaut now!

 

Called camp narrows

 

 

 

Interesting. If you are successful and earning enough money to pay the loan, the loan is foregiven. But, if you fail to turn a profit and thus don't have any money to pay, then you're on the hook for it.

 

Talk about boom or bust.

[John]

The "forgiveable loans" sounded sweet. Break even after three years and I only owed, 10% if I remember correctly????

 

Problem was the camp I wanted to buy went to crap quickly during the 2 year process of planning/negotiating etc

 

Only reason I could get the loan/grant was because my partner is indiginous

 

Also in my plan I had to hire 10 summer students from the Rez every year.

 

Really nothing restrictive, but a lil over a million is not that much to rebuild/maintain a lodge as well as costs of operating

 

True, but with no mortgage you could whip the place into shape the first year and probably break even. With a quick calculation of occupancy needed to cover operating costs.........well ya know but now it's hindsight and ancient it's ancient history..

[aplumma]

A serious talk to a few lodge owner is in order. You are really not hands off in the off season. Most lodges are manned year round to not only do all of the work you did not catch up on during the season making sure the customers are happy and tended too but to keep the damage down done by weather and people in the off season. You will rarely find a second in command that can take your place in the off season. I own and run a Plumbing company and I could not see trying to pay attention to both businesses because when one business becomes extra time intensive the other business will suffer. Can you at a moments notice leave your primary business to spend a few unplanned weeks because your camp staff quit? When your septic field fails can you line up a contractor from home and feel the job will be completed correctly? Now really complicate this by buying a remote camp where everything has to be flown in. Costs go way up and finding someone to run the operations correctly will be a tough job in itself. Now that he is there and he does a poor job before you catch it you are out huge bucks and now you have to put your primary business on the back burner. You finally fix the camp issue and now you have to repair your primary business because you ignored them while you were saving your other investment. IT is a pendulum that once swinging can easily get out of control. This is not to discourage you but to make you really think before you put your nest egg and your successful business on the line. Now weigh the reward you will never be rich from it. The assets you build will be difficult to sell in most cases. The friends you make will be priceless. So unless you are that special person who can be financially solvent in a case of failure and thrives on making other people happy then my opinion is to get 110 % feedback from people who have provided the vacation and not the people who received the vacation.

 

Art

[manitoubass2]

 

True, but with no mortgage you could whip the place into shape the first year and probably break even. With a quick calculation of occupancy needed to cover operating costs.........well ya know but now it's hindsight and ancient it's ancient history..

It's possible but unlikely. I didn't like the risk ultimately

 

I still have my plan in place should I ever reconsider, but that's not happening

 

When you look at the whole shebang, it's gnarly work and alot of risk