Garnet Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 The great liquor fortunes were made because you would do serous jail time if you did. And the great weed fortunes are already made. 13 companies that old politician's put up the seed to get them listed. Now you are suggesting gov. is going to give a tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) control will never let the criminal element that is driving the system go away but most will never understand that. Like with alcohol? Consider Prohibition last century and how the criminal element took over once alcohol was illegal. Once the government legalized and regulated the sale of alcohol again the criminal element disappeared over time. Most people given a choice, do not want buy things illegally, and especially from criminals, ie gangsters during prohibition or Bikers now. With government sale of pot you would still have those who make/grow their own like we do now with "homebrew" but the majority of people would stop buying pot sold by known criminals who usually are involved in other criminal enterprises and commit other crimes. If the money is not there criminals would stop growing pot. I'm totally for channeling any profits made from pot to the government instead of criminals. Edited December 18, 2015 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 A little googling found me this, "The RCMP has identified an increased number of marijuana growing operations in rural communities and remote areas in Canada, and notes that marijuana trafficking remains highly profitable for organized crime. Far from being small independent outfits, grow operations are considered by the RCMP to be money machines that fund major crime networks. B.C.’s Organized Crime Agency has estimated that organized crime groups control 85% of B.C.’s marijuana trade. According to the RCMP, most crime groups in Canada are involved at some level of the marijuana trade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Lol there isnt alot of money in this plant. I could press fake oxycontin pills and make more in two weeks than someone selling large amounts of weed for years Edited December 18, 2015 by manitoubass2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Lol there isnt alot of money in this plant. I could press fake oxycontin pills and make more in two weeks than someone selling large amounts of weed for years Total alcohol sales in Canada is approximately 20 billion per year. "If recreational pot becomes legal, the potential customer base suddenly runs in the millions. Dundee Capital Markets analyst Aaron Salz figures the market would then be worth up to $5 billion." (National Post) $5 billion in taxable revenue is "alot of money" especially considering that governments would tax the drug at a much higher rate then the GST. Then one must also consider the amount of tax dollars spent combating the illegal drug trade along with costs to our legal system. That figure must run into hundreds of millions of dollars. Edited December 18, 2015 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 As I said take Colorado weed tax and gross it up to Canadian population about $450 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Total alcohol sales in Canada is approximately 20 billion per year. "If recreational pot becomes legal, the potential customer base suddenly runs in the millions. Dundee Capital Markets analyst Aaron Salz figures the market would then be worth up to $5 billion." (National Post) $5 billion in taxable revenue is "alot of money" especially considering that governments would tax the drug at a much higher rate then the GST. Then one must also consider the amount of tax dollars spent combating the illegal drug trade along with costs to our legal system. That figure must run into hundreds of millions of dollars. Im talking about illegal sales. Marijuana is cheap in comparison to other "recreational drugs". There is little money to be made unless you literally moving tonnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishwilly Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Like with alcohol? Consider Prohibition last century and how the criminal element took over once alcohol was illegal. Once the government legalized and regulated the sale of alcohol again the criminal element disappeared over time. Most people given a choice, do not want buy things illegally, and especially from criminals, ie gangsters during prohibition or Bikers now. With government sale of pot you would still have those who make/grow their own like we do now with "homebrew" but the majority of people would stop buying pot sold by known criminals who usually are involved in other criminal enterprises and commit other crimes. If the money is not there criminals would stop growing pot. I'm totally for channeling any profits made from pot to the government instead of criminals. I'm totally for channeling any profits made from pot to the government instead of criminals....... Is there a difference lol??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm totally for channeling any profits made from pot to the government instead of criminals....... Is there a difference lol??? Yeah, the criminals are more trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Truth be told Lew, the criminals are far more reliable and consistent. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Truth be told Lew, the criminals are far more reliable and consistent. HH Sad what's become of this once great province, eh Joe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Honestly do you guys actually believe that being high is not an issue for drivers? I am not entirely against legalizing pot, I am just saying people that smoke pot generally feel that everyone should just accept it because they are the norm and its ok. There are many pot related deaths, accidents, and yes even murders. Of course the argument that, Oh its not the pot that made the person kill someone, the person was messed up to begin with. So then you must feel the same about drunk drivers, or anyone on any drug. Its one of those things like Apple people. Oh its the best because I use it. Really? Feature for feature a Galaxy is far superior. Anyway here is just one link. Not everyone is smart enough to not get high and drive. Just like not everyone is smart enough to not drink and drive. I am not saying there is going to be a massive increase but an increase in impaired drivers is certain. Every state that has legalized has the facts on this. Like I said I am not against it but to turn a blind eye is a bit... well blind. They use a blood test to determine THC levels in your body. Are you going to be ok with cops pulling you over at a ride patrol and smelling pot in the car and then hauling you into the station for a blood test? To say that it will have zero affect is both ignorant and naive. https://www.codot.gov/safety/alcohol-and-impaired-driving/druggeddriving Drugged Driving Statistics in ColoradoIn 2012, the Colorado Department of Human Services collected 23,519 drug and alcohol evaluations. Of the total evaluations, 1,045, or nearly 5 percent, involved marijuana. Also in 2013, there were 103 fatalities involving a drugged driver, and 36 of the 288 drivers tested for drugs had cannabis only in their system. Click here for more drugged driving statistics http://www.simcoemuskokahealth.org/Topics/DrugsAlcohol/Marijuana/ImpairedDrivingMarijuana.aspx Impaired Driving - MarijuanaCannabis Impairs Driving Marijuana negatively affects driving skills. Marijuana has been largely ignored by those using it and others as a risk when driving. It has been viewed by some as a harmless substance that has been around for years with few side effects and that it is a “natural substance”. In fact, in addition to its negative health effects – which are significant – marijuana interferes with many of the tasks required to drive safely including: time perception, motor coordination, ability to respond quickly and ability to multi-task. Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug in Canada, and its use behind the wheel is becoming more frequent. Last year a survey showed about one in six drivers in Grades 10 to 12 (17%) in Ontario reported driving a vehicle within one hour of using cannabis. These are often the same students who report that they would never drive after drinking alcohol! A common misconception is that there is less chance of being caught while driving impaired by marijuana. In actual fact a roadside sobriety test assesses for impairment by anything; if alcohol is not detected, then the driver will be subjected to further testing for the presence of drugs. Drive Straight Driving under the influence of marijuana is impaired driving and an offence under the Criminal Code...resulting in collisions, injuries and deaths. An examination of fatally-injured drivers in Canada between 2000 and 2006 revealed that almost 15 per cent of those tested were positive for marijuana. These are deaths that could have been prevented. “The fact that young cannabis users may not perceive their driving ability to be adversely affected - and/or perceive it to be less affected than after consuming alcohol – provides a false sense of security.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well Jedi, the number of people on the roads who are under the influence of booze, pot , Rx drugs etc would probably astound most of us, except maybe FishnAutographs. Do you feel that the current laws governing pot and it's distribution are realistic and fair? I know we can't trust everyone to do the right thing, but this nanny state that the Lieberals have established is finally giving the folks in this province the ability to make their own decisions. If they are going to keep pot illegal, than based on your arguments, they should make booze illegal as well. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty55 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 What I wonder is how and who is going to set the threshold for being impaired by pot. Some folks who don't puff much can get pretty buzzed by only a few tokes while others could smoke a whole joint by themselves and be relatively fine for driving. Impaired is a relative term. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 headhunter. My own personal opinion on pot legalization? I think it should be legally allowed to be used with minimal bull crap for those that actually need it. Having been with someone that had MS. The actual process of using and obtaining a license for it is much more of a process than you would think should be for someone that really could have used it. It was actually just easier and less effort to stand on the corner and ask someone for a joint than go through the process. The thing that really pisses me off is the average joe pothead who uses medicinal qualities as a guise for them just wanting to get high legally. Its such a lame excuse imo as I have no doubt 90percent of the people that complain about pot and mention medicinal qualities have no such need for it. Any of the people at MS support groups I went to do there very best to hide anything to do with pot. I don't have MS nor do I smoke pot. Have I? Sure in highschool like most people though I grew out of it and enjoy a fine scotch over a bag of weed any day of the week. Do I think its a nanny state to have pot illegal? No I thin its common sense. Its a drug. It has negative side effects. It effects other people in your life whether you care to admit it or even look at it. It stinks. It sets a terrible example for children who don't yet have the capacity to reason that recreational drug use is ok under circumstance A but not ok in circumstance B. I have my reasons for thinking it should remain illegal for recreational use. I think there are some good reasons for it to be legalized. However IMO the scales are tipped in favour of keeping it illegal for recreational use. Now having said that, a lot of people I know smoke pot and I don't care. I frequently get asked if I want a drag or a toke, I just say, nah not my thing, I enjoy my cigs, cigars and scotch just fine. Smitty, in the states they pick a fairly arbitrary parts per million in the blood stream. They will likely do the same here. The problem with Pot is its really difficult, almost impossible to grow pot at an X parts per million THC level. Even within one strand of bud. How old is it, how long was it dried for, was it cured properly, stored properly etc... Its not like beer where you know you are getting 4.9% alchohol in a bottle. Imagine if beer cold range from 2% to 40 percent alcohol with no taste, visual or scent difference. Molson would be out of business with law suits. Afaik most companies that mass produce for legalized areas stick to edibles where they can more accurately measure levels and put a sticker on them. There are a lot of intricate things that would need to be done and the Colorado governor had an article published with warnings to other areas looking to legalize about inflated budgets to legalize, how to police etc... it is a big difficult winding road and for what gain? What is the possible loss? To say its only a win win is very naïve imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well said this is just a part of pandoras box that will be opened if it is legalized for recreational use instead of keeping it as a medicinal needed product. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Art, Pandora's box was kicked wide open years ago, what we are really discussing is if the government will be getting their piece of the action. One can rant all they want about it's effects, but it is everywhere and used by a great many people. It's like arguing if booze should be illegal or not, if it was, folks would be brewing and making home stills and the gov wouldn't get their piece of the pie. the gov wants their pie. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) All my life's a circle.... Jen's Oncologist told Leah straight out "be a good mother, go over to Yonge St and buy her some good stuff, not that sh it that health Canada sells. Lets get over the "licence" stigma, it's just a stupid complicated step. No different than Alcohol currently is, it just needs to be legal and if it takes tax collection on the recreational users (that aren't green thumb enough to grow their own) sobeit. Well maybe it's a little different than alcohol, as you still can't legally "still" hard liquor in Canada, but I see many here have no issues with that. Hmmm... anyone want to share some Rum mash??? Edited December 18, 2015 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 If I had my way alcohol as well as any recreational mind altering product would be dispensed with a license like and or some form of proof you can handle it. This is an unrealistic view and expectation that we will never see. Truth is I don't have the correct answer nor so far on the thread have I see a way out of this mess. Maybe keeping it illegal and closing our eyes as we have in the past is the answer for pot. Allowing another mind altering substance does not seem the answer either. So far alcohol. tobacco and firearms have been allowed out of the box and look at the detrimental effects it has had on society. We have a whole division of the government allocated to controlling the abuses of these products. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Just make it a free for all Art, and let the gene pool level itself out! Pretty simple, will people and family get hurt... SURE... but they are now as well for not being given access to some stuff that is truly helping people. My fishing buddy Andy would have been gone before his 50th birthday, if he hadn't taken things into his own hands. Weed oil destroyed a 5 cm tumour in his colon (currently undetectable by MRI) and his Oncologists only advise was to go home and get your stuff in order. He'll be 53 in May.. and we'll fish again on his Birthday! Edited December 18, 2015 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish_fishburn Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hey Jedi you should go and watch the movie Reefer Madness. There's a few things you can add to your list of why it should remain illegal. lol. You can smoke you stinky cigars and drink your foul tasting scotch. I don't care what you ingest into your own body as long as it doesn't affect me.(second hand smoke and drunk driving). People that smoke weed and get behind the wheel should lose their licence if caught, its irresponsible and endangers others. Legalization isn't going to fill the roads with stoned drivers, the ones that will do it are already doing it. I also don't think that consumption will increase as much as most people are saying it will once it becomes legal. Let me ask you this. If heroin became legal tomorrow would you go and buy some? Probably not, unless you already do heroin. Getting a bit off topic I think cell phone use is a much bigger problem then stoned or drunk drivers. When caught they should have their vehicle towed to a compound and their licence automatically suspended for 30 days for first offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Lol the "war on drugs" sure did its job brainwashing the masses??? Its marijuana, take a puff and chill out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty55 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Lol the "war on drugs" sure did its job brainwashing the masses Its marijuana, take a puff and chill out Hear, hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Lol the "war on drugs" sure did its job brainwashing the masses??? Its marijuana, take a puff and chill out Troof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I get a kick out of the guys that get worried about legalizing it and the increase in drugged driving..What exactly is it that you all think will change...Im going to tell you whats going to change..The government is going to cash in and that's it. There wont be a real increase in anything but tax revenue..There wont be any more or less drugged driving then there is right now..Want to talk bout drugged driving put this in your pipe and smoke it..The wife works at Shoppers Drug mart in the pharmacy, the amount of people getting their opiate scripts higher then a kite and driving around is in the hundreds per week! Id start there if your worried about drugged driving. Nothing like chewing on fentenyl patches driving down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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