Big Cliff Posted October 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ahh Brian, how you going to learn if you aren't willing to listen my friend. I have learned so much by asking questions then listening to the replies. It is nice to see that some of the replies to this post have very strong views and I love seeing that! We are starting to get some really interesting replies, some supported by facts (to some degree) but the one thing I am really learning is that MANY are in the same boat as I am, want to vote but are not sure what is the RIGHT way to vote. The following are just my personal opinions based on the information I have at hand as of right now and subject to change: Trudeau seems like a nice young man and he presents well but his lack of experience really scares me and some of his comments make me wonder: "the budget will balance itself", "I'll take from the rich and give to the poor" (sorry, paraphrased that), "send coats to Syria". The part that really scares me is that if the Liberals do get in our wonderful Premier Wynne the Poo is going to have a field day at our expense. Mulcaire just doesn't seem to have any idea what is going on, I don't think he presents well and I don't feel that he could represent Canada on the world stage. IMHO he tells you what he thinks you want to hear without any idea how he would back it up if he does get in and that is when the excuses would start. (in the back of my mind are still the Rae days) and perhaps that is affecting my attitude but it is all about perception. Harper; well I have to be honest with you, sometimes I think it's better the devil you know, he has done a lot of things I don't like but then again would anyone else done it better? The one big thing he has going for him IMHO is that he doesn't pander to Wynne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaf4 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Just my opinion, and a sarcastic tongue in cheek one at that, but his moves with the refugees that are seeking entry are similarly discriminatory/shady http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/canadian-politics/targeted-for-extermination-harper-says-prioritizing-christian-and-religious-minority-refugees-isnt-discriminatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ahh Brian, how you going to learn if you aren't willing to listen my friend. Well Cliff , you must know already, I am there to fish and enjoy my day. The one thing in life I can just go out and relax and not worry about the termoil . If you also need to know, they were harper fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Lucas there is no need to put Hitler's name next to Harpers. Call him what you wish but a murderer of millions isn't one of them. No he might not give everyone or anyone in fact a warm and fuzzy feeling but he is no Hitler. Harper is the PM of Canada. Canada is part of NATO and the UN. Times have changed and you "might" not see the war/killings. But he indeed apart of it. War has changed. Anyhow, I agree with many that its a confusing vote. What do I wanna lose and what do I wanna keep? Not gonna have both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ahh Brian, how you going to learn if you aren't willing to listen my friend. I have learned so much by asking questions then listening to the replies. It is nice to see that some of the replies to this post have very strong views and I love seeing that! We are starting to get some really interesting replies, some supported by facts (to some degree) but the one thing I am really learning is that MANY are in the same boat as I am, want to vote but are not sure what is the RIGHT way to vote. The following are just my personal opinions based on the information I have at hand as of right now and subject to change: Trudeau seems like a nice young man and he presents well but his lack of experience really scares me and some of his comments make me wonder: "the budget will balance itself", "I'll take from the rich and give to the poor" (sorry, paraphrased that), "send coats to Syria". The part that really scares me is that if the Liberals do get in our wonderful Premier Wynne the Poo is going to have a field day at our expense. Harper; well I have to be honest with you, sometimes I think it's better the devil you know, he has done a lot of things I don't like but then again would anyone else done it better? The one big thing he has going for him IMHO is that he doesn't pander to Wynne. Somethings to think about.... The context of the statement that budgets balance themselves is not something that the cons want to discuss. The context was, The liberals believe if you spend the money on infrastructure that give businesses and people what they need to thrive then the economy grows and people get jobs and MORE tax revenue is generated by a GROWING economy. Not too much different from the cons trickle down view, that if you give businesses all the tax breaks and perks they will increase productivity and hire more people and the economy will grow and the tax break will be recuperated.... Except after 9 yrs of that strategy it is not working and the cons record of the WORST economic performance since WWII of any government clearly proves that. So something is missing, business profits are up, over all productivity from Canadian workers is WAY up. So why is the trade deficit growing so much? Why are Canadian corporations hoarding 600 million in profits off shore that they aren't paying taxes on, even though they would be paying the least amount of tax EVER in Canadian history? When is enough money enough to just sit in a corporate bank account? I have no problem with corporations making profits, paying their share, and hiring Canadians to work in Canada, but they sure seem to have a huge problem with doing either under Harper for some reason? Could he be in on the tax evasion? http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/harper-government-partnered-with-industry-group-battling-cra-over-kpmg-case-1.3257994 Lastly, WE NEED a federal government to pander to Ontario who like it or not is run by Wynn so voting for a government that keeps hurting Ontario with crappy secret trade deals only makes sense if you live elsewhere... or are rich enough you don't care about making money anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Carey...Carey.... +1 Also its not all roses and daisies with Hitler uh I mean Harper http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/canadaWell young man you have just leapt to lead in the catagory of dumbest things ever said here...congratulations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkrp Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Harpers foreign policy has turned our canadian flag into a target world wide as is the US flag.This is not the Canada I can be proud of. Lets take our country back and get him the hell out. He is a dangerous man and may god bless Canada if he wins this election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaf4 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Well young man you have just leapt to lead in the catagory of dumbest things ever said here...congratulations...Thanks! If that's the dumbest thing ever said here (and I wasn't meaning it in all seriousness, just tongue in cheek humour) then you'd be apalled at what people are seriously saying about harper on the interwebz But if I were to base your judge of character by your choice of hockey clubs I'd say you're way off anyway! Edited October 11, 2015 by Lucas F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I've been facing the same conundrum this time around Cliff. As Dave said above- vote for the candidate that doesnt have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Harpers foreign policy has turned our canadian flag into a target world wide as is the US flag.This is not the Canada I can be proud of. Lets take our country back and get him the hell out. He is a dangerous man and may god bless Canada if he wins this election I feel the same way about the Liberal and NDP candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted October 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Please guys (and gals) please keep it civil! From descussion comes knowledge, from knowledge comes power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishwilly Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Whay we have is a very flawed system with the average Joe paying for the greed/power of the few. Listen to what Russell Brand has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkpie Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) +1 Also its not all roses and daisies with Hitler uh I mean Harper http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/canada Hitler? I've heard a lot of silly political comments here and generally don't bother arguing them, but to compare any of our politicians to Adolph Hitler is in poor taste and flat out ridiculous. Some folks clearly have no idea how good we have it here. Edited October 12, 2015 by porkpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Lets forget the comical rhetoric, this certainly is one of the toughest elections to vote in for a very long time. Vote with your heart, your head, your choice. But please vote. Only about one fourth of us will vote that effects the other 60 some odd percent that will stay home and watch TV. Regardless of whom we wish or don't wish to lead this country for the next 5 years I beg you to go out and vote. Please, just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Except after 9 yrs of that strategy it is not working and the cons record of the WORST economic performance since WWII of any government clearly proves that. The entire world economy has had its WORST economic performance since WWII. Harper cannot be blamed for slow growth for the entire world economy. It would be far more relevant to compare Canada's performance against the performance of other countries such as U.S.A., G7, etc. I think Canada has done quite well compared to most other countries over the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaf4 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Hitler? I've heard a lot of silly political comments here and generally don't bother arguing them, but to compare any of our politicians to Adolph Hitler is in poor taste and flat out ridiculous. Some folks clearly have no idea how good we have it here. Lol I guess this isn't the place for bad jokes, sorry to rustle your jimmies Edited October 12, 2015 by Lucas F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Just my opinion, and a sarcastic tongue in cheek one at that, but his moves with the refugees that are seeking entry are similarly discriminatory/shady http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/canadian-politics/targeted-for-extermination-harper-says-prioritizing-christian-and-religious-minority-refugees-isnt-discriminatory They are giving priority to the most vulnerable. Is that a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaf4 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 They are giving priority to the most vulnerable. Is that a bad thing? "What Harper didnt mention, however, is that all the resettled refugee candidates Ottawa is considering are far from Islamic States reach and are located in places like Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 The entire world economy has had its WORST economic performance since WWII. Harper cannot be blamed for slow growth for the entire world economy. It would be far more relevant to compare Canada's performance against the performance of other countries such as U.S.A., G7, etc. I think Canada has done quite well compared to most other countries over the last 10 years. Wynn could use the exact same excuse about things are tough all over to excuse her dismal performance, and I wouldn't accept that either... Canada has WAY too many advantages over other countries with abundant resources, relatively stable political scene, very few natural disasters. A well educated, innovative and productive workforce. So we shouldn't just be doing well against the other countries in the G7 we should be eating their lunch. Sadly despite what Hampers hype would have us believe we are just mid pack economically right now. When every other country was down and out we blew an opportunity to grow out of our historical position of being hewers of wood and selling dirty oil on the cheap. Yet nothing was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Wynn could use the exact same excuse about things are tough all over to excuse her dismal performance, and I wouldn't accept that either... When looking at individual provinces, the logical comparison would be to other provinces in Canada. Ontario has fared very poorly compared to other provinces under the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals. Edited October 12, 2015 by JohnBacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 What is the bench mark for success of a country? Anyone? We are OK, not thriving, not leading the world in some categories other than standard of living and I believe we are up there, so what exactly is the biggest "we need a change now" problem? Please enlighten me? And I am not being my sarcastic me, I want to know what the everyday "I can't take this anymore" problem is that makes my day to day living tougher. Political scandals are just that, ir doesn't hamper you day to day life, embarrassing, waste of $$$, pisses me off, all yes but does it affect my ability to provide food and shelter for my family? I know I am pissed over the US Steel fiasco. Apparently tomorrow I am loosing my pension benefits I earned for 30 years working in a shirt hole called Stelco Ironmaking. I earned those benefits and hear nothing coming out of my Prime Ministers mouth. But I do remember him writing off millions of dollars of money owed and a substantial payout of federal dollars to save my pension from the former Stelco. That has given me 12 more years of monthly pensions that I thought were lost. There were no Canadian companies standing in line to buy our plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) When looking at individual provinces, the logical comparison would be to other provinces in Canada. Ontario has faired very poorly compared to other provinces under the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals. Do you have any data to back up your thoughts? I was amazed when I looked into which provincial economies were growing at the start of the election. Last month though things were all switched around again. Edited October 12, 2015 by Canuck2fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 What is the bench mark for success of a country? Anyone? We are OK, not thriving, not leading the world in some categories other than standard of living and I believe we are up there, so what exactly is the biggest "we need a change now" problem? Please enlighten me? And I am not being my sarcastic me, I want to know what the everyday "I can't take this anymore" problem is that makes my day to day living tougher. Political scandals are just that, ir doesn't hamper you day to day life, embarrassing, waste of $$$, pisses me off, all yes but does it affect my ability to provide food and shelter for my family? I know I am pissed over the US Steel fiasco. Apparently tomorrow I am loosing my pension benefits I earned for 30 years working in a shirt hole called Stelco Ironmaking. I earned those benefits and hear nothing coming out of my Prime Ministers mouth. But I do remember him writing off millions of dollars of money owed and a substantial payout of federal dollars to save my pension from the former Stelco. That has given me 12 more years of monthly pensions that I thought were lost. There were no Canadian companies standing in line to buy our plants. I was saddened and shocked to see that was happening to your pension. Then read later that the details of the secret deal cooked up in Ottawa at the time US Steel bought in can't be released even now? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Do you have any data to back up your thoughts? I was amazed when I looked into which provincial economies were growing at the start of the election. Last month though things were all switched around again though. Ontario is now officially a 'have not' province. We were not a 'have not' province before the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals took power; but we are now. The only way a province can go from not being a 'have not' province, to being a 'have not' province; is for that province to have poor economic performance relative to the other provinces in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would love to ask a few questions of any of the 4 candidates. How many do you think know what a litre of Milk costs, or a loaf of bread? A pound of ground beef? That would be fun to watch then writhe in pain to answer. Maybe Liz May would know but I have a better chance of cracking the starting line up of the local old timers anything team with my knees than her getting party status in Parliament. What do anyone of them know about what we have to do to earn a living. Do you think Justin ever had to work summers in a Steel Mill? Or anyone of them ever having to go into work at 11PM on a Sunday? Never. They have no idea what we have to do to live but they are all we have to choose from. You are right Big Cliff. "WHO, WHO WHOM???" Tough decision, really tough. But as I said before, be a tough guy and vote no matter what. I don't agree to the protest vote, ie declining a ballot or voting for the Tin Hat party, it won't make a difference, at all. It's a waste of gas to get there. If you think the winners will heed that I have a few acres of land in Florida for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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