Jon Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm not sure if this one has an easy answer or not but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think. I recently saw a guy take a dead Chinook from a closed sanctuary. He tailed it with his bare hands, put it in a bag and took off. Now I have a bunch of questions starting with my most general, is this legal or not? The fish was dead when he "caught" it but he did not use a legal angling technique to capture the fish. The area was closed to fishing so no harvest was allowed but did he really harvest? What if he took 8 dead Chinooks home (over the legal limit of 6) - is that legal since the fish were already dead? Does someone need a fishing licence to catch and possess dead fish? To me, this has a lot of nuances and I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts are. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 that is illegal, most likely harvesting a female with eggs, keeping the eggs and ditching the carcass, the eggs count towards possession limit. so not only was he 'fishing' in a closed section, he also used an illegal angling method Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 interesting question on the surface 100% illegal however when dead fish wash up to shore at your home or the local park no one would think of charging all the people who gather them up to dispose of them, when Scugog had the big fish die off the encouraged people to gather them up with no thoughts to limits or seasons the intent may be different but the action is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 i think those are 2 different situations, think the ministry would see that as the intent to purposely harvest, whereas the other were 1 encouraged by the ministry, and 2 property maintenance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Who cares if a guy wants to take a dead fish? Does it really matter? Its dead. Dead is dead. I think our enforcement officers have better things to be concerned with....if you can find one. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigdritchie Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Even if the fish is found dead, the guy will still need a valid fishing license to be in posession of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootsie II Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 A friend of mine and a buddy were baiting for bear this August. The buddy found a large dead pickerel on shore near his cottage. He picked it up and used it to bait the bear bait site. Somehow the Ministry found out and the buddy got a visit from a CO. The CO only warned him not to do it again but made it very clear to him that it was illegal and next time a charge would be laid. I don't remember the exact provision under which the charge would be based but apparently it is clearly illegal even if the intent is only to clean it up to stop it from stinking. Apparently, you have to notify the Ministry and get permission first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 A friend of mine and a buddy were baiting for bear this August. The buddy found a large dead pickerel on shore near his cottage. He picked it up and used it to bait the bear bait site. Somehow the Ministry found out and the buddy got a visit from a CO. The CO only warned him not to do it again but made it very clear to him that it was illegal and next time a charge would be laid. I don't remember the exact provision under which the charge would be based but apparently it is clearly illegal even if the intent is only to clean it up to stop it from stinking. Apparently, you have to notify the Ministry and get permission first. Illegal disposal of a gamefish? I dunno what else they could possibly charge him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 But don't these regulations all apply to the harvest of live fish, not dead fish? All the Acts that I can find (Federal Fisheries Act, Ontario Fishery Regulations) only speak about harvest of live fish using legal angling techniques. I can't see anywhere where they speak about harvesting or possessing dead fish. The Ontario Fishery Regulations state that "no person shall, except as authorized under a licence, (a) fish". Grabbing a dead fish by the tail is not fishing so it would seem to be legal? A couple other questions came to mind when reading through the comments and regulations. 1. If you get a legally caught fish mounted, does that become part of your possession limit? If a licence is required to be in possession of a dead fish, would that not include the fish on the wall? 2. Trolling is defined as "angling by trailing lures or bait behind a fishing vessel that is in constant forward motion". Is back trolling then not considered trolling? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's still a sport fish in the regs, dead or not. As for a mount? No, that's not apart of your possession limit. Back trolling is trolling.. Are you trolling right now with these questions? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 If he is trolling Bill, he just hooked an "Imperial Margarine"! LOL HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 How would he prove to the CO that he harvested dead fish and it wasn't alive when he grabbed it? There are no grey areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Illegal disposal of a gamefish? I dunno what else they could possibly charge him with. Are you referring to the law about not allowing game fish to spoil? I think that applies to legally angled fish that are suitable for human consumption. I am not sure that picking up a dead fish from the river bank would count as legally angled. I highly doubt that an already dead salmon on the river bank would cound as suitable for human consumption. Even if the fish is found dead, the guy will still need a valid fishing license to be in posession of it. Actually, you do not need a license to possess fish. E.g. It is perfectly legal for me to give a fish to another person even if they do not have a license. However, any fish that I give away will count against my daily limit. I am still not sure whether the original example is legal or not. There may be a law, or interpretation of a law that covers that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 How would he prove to the CO that he harvested dead fish and it wasn't alive when he grabbed it? There are no grey areas. The burden of proof would be on the CO. I brought a rainbow fillet home with me last weekend. It would have been illegal for me keep a rainbow from a closed section of a river. It would have been illegal for me keep a rainbow from a sanctuary such as within 25 yards of a fishway. But is was perfectly legal to keep the rainbow that was caught while trolling in Lake Ontario I cannot prove to the CO that it was legally caught in waters that were open using legal fishing methods while I was in possession of my fishing licence... but the CO cannot prove that it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 If he is trolling Bill, he just hooked an "Imperial Margarine"! LOL HH HAHAHHA! That title is for our very own Misfish, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkpie Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Who cares. If I see a freshly dead hen, I will strip it for eggs, provided they haven't gone off. Makes good chum! Dead is dead, and that means the fish isn't going to spawn successfully, so if someone wants to make some use of it, then why not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Who cares. If I see a freshly dead hen, I will strip it for eggs, provided they haven't gone off. Makes good chum! Dead is dead, and that means the fish isn't going to spawn successfully, so if someone wants to make some use of it, then why not! ...in a sanctuary? You might have an issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I remember one time we were up north fishing whities, where the limit was 25 each. We had a good pile of them in the truck from that morning, then pulled onto lake simcoe for some afternoon perchin on the way home. You shoulda seen the look on the wardens face when he looked in the back of the truck LOL.....luckily we had a reciept from the gas station where we caught the whities, or he was going to fine us and take the fish! S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkpie Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) ...in a sanctuary? You might have an issue with that. You won't find me in sanctuaries to start with. However a dude with no rod or net, picking up a carcass in a sanctuary, or anywhere else for that matter, is a non issue for me. North shore lake O rivers receive an abundance of nutrients from carcasses, and the fish won't spawn anyway..... So who cares! However, I rob carcasses whenever practical on open waters. As long as the eggs are decent, it's a free source of decent chum that doesn't affect fisheries. If a guy wants to wander around and pick up dead fish with no means to snag or net them on his person, I'm okay with that, even if it's in a sanctuary! Edited October 21, 2014 by porkpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) You won't find me in sanctuaries to start with. However a dude with no rod or net, picking up a carcass in a sanctuary, or anywhere else for that matter, is a non issue for me. North shore lake O rivers receive an abundance of nutrients from carcasses, and the fish won't spawn anyway..... So who cares! However, I rob carcasses whenever practical on open waters. As long as the eggs are decent, it's a free source of decent chum that doesn't affect fisheries. If a guy wants to wander around and pick up dead fish with no means to snag or net them on his person, I'm okay with that, even if it's in a sanctuary!sure! I kept a porcupine a few years back for regalia. Was hit by a truck. Kinda similar lol. I had no issues with it nor did mnr Edited October 21, 2014 by manitoubass2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Who cares if a guy wants to take a dead fish? Does it really matter? Its dead. Dead is dead. I think our enforcement officers have better things to be concerned with....if you can find one. S. Amen. -Sawyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 But I think the question was is it legal. Not do you care I think it may be considered illegal. But if I saw someone taking dead fish I would not call tips If they were snagging fish I would report them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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