No roe in the ganny

[capt bruce]

The Atlantic program is an utter failure, and has little angler support from my unscientific polling. I've yet to meet an angler who thinks the money spent is worthwhile. I believe it is propped up solely by the MNR and a couple of associations. I am not sure why, but it's a lot of money wasted on someone's pet project.

Believe it or not...there is a growing number of dedicated and very interested groups of us that support the Alantic program and volunteer to work on it...and truly enjoy a dime bright muscle bound Alantic salmon that has just yanked your arm out of place , is into your backing way faster than that BLACK , WHITE FUZZ LADEN CHINY's.....and you find yourself looking up in the trees at a fish that has Tarpon air capabilities....Alantics can get to eight feet above the water line , doing a double twist two somersault with a half gainer back to the H2o.... Chiny's in the lake are fun but in the rivers !!!!!!! Also I miss the 80's when 4 or 5 rods would go off at the same time with COHOS flying out of the water , crossed lines you go there I'm over you , had some great charters than .. This love of chinys over all else ??? Alantics when they get the stocking problems fixed (Dont believe about Alantics , St . Marys dude , go up there when the Alantics are running , you will never feel the same about Steel ever again and will feel ashamed about hooking a river Chiny ) and more Coho stocking will give us the best of all worlds . AND ALANTICS LIKE STEEL DONT DIE AFTER SPAWNING , THEY ARE LIKE THE BATTERY BUNNY THEY COME BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN , once you get them established , maybe if you put your negative energy that you spend on dissing people that are trying to help, into postive energy helping out , these problems with return numbers may be worked out ????

 

That's Why.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2013 by capt bruce

[Jon]

that said, does anyone have a good reason why we're allowed to target these easily caught and snagged spawning fish, yet most other species are off limits when they're spawning in wide open lakes?

 

 

Another guess - there is less concern about people snagging Chinooks than other species because Chinooks are stocked as part of a put, grow and take fishery and reproduction isn't a goal?

 

Jon

[capt bruce]

Another guess - there is less concern about people snagging Chinooks than other species because Chinooks are stocked as part of a put, grow and take fishery and reproduction isn't a goal?

 

Jon

 

Guess # 2 , perhaps NOONE IN THIER right mind, would think that any ANGLER (or one that would call himself so), would ever want to catch a black, white fungus laden half dead fish ???? Dont have laws about pokeing your self in the eye with a stick ????? You just assume that people DONT do that ...

[misfish]

Alantics can get to eight feet above the water line , doing a double twist two somersault with a half gainer back to the H2o....

 

Cant say I have seen them do that Bruce, ,but in the early 80,s I would catch them out from the mouth of the Humber. The do like you say,give a good smack,grab and pull.

 

Also I miss the 80's when 4 or 5 rods would go off at the same time with COHOS flying out of the water , crossed lines you go there I'm over you , had some great charters than

 

[kemper]

time to play devils advocate...

 

salmon dying and nutrients going back into the circle is 100% natural. but, there is nothing natural about salmon carcasses being stripped and dumped anywhere from a couple to hundreds of feet from the riverbanks and salmon carcasses tossed into garbage cans serve no purpose other than stinking up the area. i think educating people about the benefits of leaving the carcass near or in the water would help solve the issue of residents complaining about the smell. the carcasses belong in or near the water. take the roe and leave them there if you're not going to eat it.

 

a ban on roe would definitely help with the carcasses being littered everywhere and would definitely lower the number of fish that are taken. it seems like the majority of people i speak with who are fishing for salmon on the rivers are steelheaders looking for free roe and could care less about salmon as they're only interested in killing one species to catch another. if there were a ban on roe many people would have no reason to target salmon as it seems like most are after roe, not meat. a ban would likely stop greedy people from killing multiple fish to load up on roe and would also curb most poaching as nobody would have a use for the roe the poachers take every year.

 

 

that said, does anyone have a good reason why we're allowed to target these easily caught and snagged spawning fish, yet most other species are off limits when they're spawning in wide open lakes?

 

A ban on roe stops the law-abiding steelheaders from stripping one or two chinnys for roe.

 

It does NOTHING to stop the groups that come in at night and strip 50-75 fish at a time. These people are criminals, not anglers.

[John Bacon]

a ban on roe would definitely help with the carcasses being littered everywhere and would definitely lower the number of fish that are taken. it seems like the majority of people i speak with who are fishing for salmon on the rivers are steelheaders looking for free roe and could care less about salmon as they're only interested in killing one species to catch another. if there were a ban on roe many people would have no reason to target salmon as it seems like most are after roe, not meat. a ban would likely stop greedy people from killing multiple fish to load up on roe and would also curb most poaching as nobody would have a use for the roe the poachers take every year.

 

I don't think banning roe on the Ganaraska only would have much impact. People would still harvest the roe to use on other rivers. The ban would have to be province wide in order to have any impact. There would be a lot of legitimate resistance to a province wide ban on roe to stop the slaughter of salmon.

[porkpie]

Believe it or not...there is a growing number of dedicated and very interested groups of us that support the Alantic program and volunteer to work on it...and truly enjoy a dime bright muscle bound Alantic salmon that has just yanked your arm out of place , is into your backing way faster than that BLACK , WHITE FUZZ LADEN CHINY's.....and you find yourself looking up in the trees at a fish that has Tarpon air capabilities....Alantics can get to eight feet above the water line , doing a double twist two somersault with a half gainer back to the H2o.... Chiny's in the lake are fun but in the rivers !!!!!!! Also I miss the 80's when 4 or 5 rods would go off at the same time with COHOS flying out of the water , crossed lines you go there I'm over you , had some great charters than .. This love of chinys over all else ??? Alantics when they get the stocking problems fixed (Dont believe about Alantics , St . Marys dude , go up there when the Alantics are running , you will never feel the same about Steel ever again and will feel ashamed about hooking a river Chiny ) and more Coho stocking will give us the best of all worlds . AND ALANTICS LIKE STEEL DONT DIE AFTER SPAWNING , THEY ARE LIKE THE BATTERY BUNNY THEY COME BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN , once you get them established , maybe if you put your negative energy that you spend on dissing people that are trying to help, into postive energy helping out , these problems with return numbers may be worked out ????

 

That's Why.

 

 

I have absolutely zero interest in catching a chinook in a river. Other than bait! I am however rather curtious and remove my salmon carcasses and "dispose"'of them appropriately, and not riverside! I also generally can avoid it as several friends are trollers, and usually have a guest or 2 that will keep August kings. I get the skeins, so it cuts down on the unpleasantness of fishing them in the river. I too was a big fan of cohos! The last one I caught Ontario side in a river was probably 8 or 9 years ago. Criticism of a program that has so far shown a rather large failure rate isn't "dissing" it is fair criticism. I believe what I have said is fairly accurate. If this program didn't have a lot of internal support in the MNR ie: it's someone's pet project, and they have some pull, something that has been so unsuccessful for so long would likely have been dumped. Opinions are like you know what.... And that is my opinion. In a relatively free country I am allowed to have one. I would prefer to see m tax dollars that in my opinion are being wasted on this program, redirected to more successful programs. And that's as far as I will go with this discussion.

[misfish]

Really wish I could SAY(in my own words),,what I seen over the many years.But here on OFC,it is forbidden. From the Ganny,all the way down to the hill of the Whirlpool. I could tell you stories,probly like many that fished it from the late 70,s on. Im sure my words of choice,would not be liked here. Truth hurts sometimes.It STILL happens to this day, and still,it,s the same.IGNORANCE.

 

What to do???????????????????

Edited March 22, 2013 by Misfish

[bigugli]

I have not gone near the Gannie since the early 80's. Know full well what you are saying, Brian. Standing elbow to elbow in spring or fall, for the slaughter , was not my idea of fun.

 

Since Port Hope and Cobourg started being angler unfriendly, I treat them the same as NOTL. I refuse to drop a single dime in such towns.

Edited March 23, 2013 by bigugli

[chessy]

bigugly only town where you can come and park free for the day. not spend a single dime in the town and leave garbage in the can or where ever you want . both towns are not unfriendly to fishermen...only slob fishermen....and just maybe if you feel they are unfriendly to you maybe you are the latter of the two types we want in our town

Edited March 23, 2013 by chessy

[bigugli]

bigugly only town where you can come and park free for the day. not spend a single dime in the town and leave garbage in the can or where ever you want . both towns are not unfriendly to fishermen...only slob fishermen....and just maybe if you feel they are unfriendly to you maybe you are the latter of the two types we want in our town

Don't much care for any municipality that tries to restrict angling within it's borders. In NOTL it was the municipal angling licence permitting only residents to fish from municipal parks.

After reading the crap Ron went through trying to fish a municipal harbour, going to court, etc.., obviously not a class act, despite the township's charm.

They discriminate their way, I discriminate with my dollars

In case you didn't read the full comment, I stopped fishing the Gannie because it was such a circus. Same with the zoo that the Credit was with fellas in waders flicking roe bags on trebles at every passing fish. And I have never harvested roe

[porkpie]

bigugly only town where you can come and park free for the day. not spend a single dime in the town and leave garbage in the can or where ever you want . both towns are not unfriendly to fishermen...only slob fishermen....and just maybe if you feel they are unfriendly to you maybe you are the latter of the two types we want in our town

Ok, I lied.... I have one more thing to add. Chessy is 100 percent correct. Port Hope has always been very angler friendly! What other town in this province can you set up a bloody tent in the middle of a park in town and stay for opener???? I can't think of any! They provide garbage cans, a fish cleaning station and washrooms as well. What more do you want! I agree the fishing is less than poetic, but they certainly provide well for the fisherman!!

[Sinker]

Even with all the garbage cans we still pick it up off the ground. I hate to say it, but slob fisherman are the worste!! I know there are a lot of guys who do care, but the small percentage that don't can sure make a mess!!

 

S.

[craigdritchie]

Believe it or not...there is a growing number of dedicated and very interested groups of us that support the Alantic program and volunteer to work on it...and truly enjoy a dime bright muscle bound Alantic salmon that has just yanked your arm out of place ....Alantics can get to eight feet above the water line , doing a double twist two somersault with a half gainer back to the H2o....

 

 

Nice romantic visions Captain Bruce, but let's face reality.

 

1. The majority of Atlantic salmon caught in Lake Ontario rivers show up in fall after there has finally been enough rain to raise their ditch-like water levels. By then, the fish are either approaching spawning condition, or in full spawning condition and loaded with eggs, just like the cohos and chinooks. By that point in time and in that cold water, they do not leap eight feet into the air, nor do they put on "tarpon-like" aerial displays (come on man, be honest. Have you ever hooked a tarpon? It's a whole other breed of cat). And yes, some Atlantics do get a bit of fungus on them just like the coho and chinnies. That's reality.

 

2. Atlantic salmon do not provide a spring fishery in the rivers - at all. It's strictly a September - November thing, then game over for the rest of the year.

 

3. Atlantic salmon don't provide a summer boat fishery - at all. I know in August and Spetember guys catch them from tinnies fishing the power outlet discharge in Sault Ste Marie, but that is not the same thing. I'm talking about supporting an offshore boat fishery, like coho, chinook and steelhead do.

 

Now let's compare to steelhead:

 

1. Fall steelhead are generally bright as a dime, right into January. They don't leap like a tarpon or come flying eight feet out of the water either, but fresh from the lake they fight every bit as hard as an Atlantic.

 

2. Steelhead provide a pier/river fishery from late August till mid-May, sometimes late May. Atlantics don't. So you get nine months of shore fishing for steelhead each year, and maybe two months and a bit for Atlantics. Steelhead provide way more bang for the buck.

 

3. No doubt Captain Bruce has fished the Blue Zone on Lake Ontario or Erie ..... and can confirm that steelhead provide an awesome and dependable summer boat fishery. Not so for Atlantic salmon - anywhere in the world.

 

So why keep beating a dead horse that hasn't produced any results since 1985? Scrap the Atlantic program altogether and put those precious MNR resources on steelhead. You'll have a MUCH better fishery in 18 months. After all, DOESN'T MNR HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE ANGLERS OF ONTARIO WHO FUND THEM THROUGH THEIR TAXES AND LICENSE FEES???? WHEN CAN WE FINALLY GET SOME CUSTOMER SERVICE AROUND HERE, AND START SEEING VALUE FOR OUR DOLLARS?????

 

Our sport fishery on Lake Ontario has gone down the toilet and all we keep hearing are endless excuses.

 

People who say "it takes time, we haven't waited long enough to see results yet" really make me laugh. We've stocked Atlantics for 25 years, and still .... nothing. We've stocked a couple million in the past four years alone. Nothing.

 

When Ontario introduced coho to Lake Ontario in 1968, they stocked about 130,000 fish and had a wicked sport fishery in 18 months. Within four years, the number of boats on Lake Ontario skyrocketed. There were lineups at launch ramps, tackle stores did great business, hotels and restaurants were filled, and everyone was happy. Capt Bruce mentions the glory days of Lake Ontario coho fishing, and it's true - those were really good times for everyone.

 

Now, we stock half a million Atlantics each year and think great, maybe in 30 years maybe there might be enough of them out there I can legally fish for them in the river and expect to catch something. Because let's remember, right now it is absolutely ILLEGAL to fish for Atlantic salmon in Lake Ontario rivers. That is, unless you are one of the special few who have one of those special permits that lets you fish in the sanctuaries and areas with closed seasons, but I digress.

 

When Ontario began stocking browns in Lake Ontario tributaries in the early 80s, there were good runs and great fishing for them within four years. Remeber those days, Captain Bruce? Yet after 25 years of Altantic stocking ....... nothing.

 

What does it take to get some people to face the facts and admit the Atlantic salmon program is a complete failure in every way? I know the truth hurts, but enough is enough.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Craig_Ritchie

[Steve]

so many talk about only stripping salmon as they are half dying or dead.

HOWEVER, 90% of rainbow anglers want to strip full living BROWN roe...

 

so give yourself a headshake if you think its only salmon that are being stripped.

 

remove the use of roe and remove the unnecessary carniage towards a species that IS NOT dying when they enter the rivers - only dies when their stomachs are ripped open from a lugan.

 

now we'll get guys chiming in that it is allowed as they are harvesting the fish part of their legal right - FINE. but don't speak like anglers are only stripping dead or dying chinooks.

[TDunn]

Kemper, google Roger Greil atlantics. Pick your way through and have a read.

Roger is the man!

 

 

TDunn

[ch312]

 

Because by doing so it stimulates more people to fish and buy licences . A lot of these people would not fish for salmon in fall if they could not keep roe or fish .

 

so you're saying it's okay to target spawning fish as long as someone is making money off of it? this mentality of river salmon being garbage fish and no good for nothing other than roe is what got us here in the first place. those who fish in lakes for the same fish also contribute huge amounts of money to the government and local economy.

 

 

A ban on roe stops the law-abiding steelheaders from stripping one or two chinnys for roe.

 

It does NOTHING to stop the groups that come in at night and strip 50-75 fish at a time. These people are criminals, not anglers.

 

if there were a complete ban on roe, those people would have no reason to strip 50-75 fish at a time because there would be no market for the roe they're taking. there would be zero point in stripping eggs if nobody was going to buy them...

 

Another guess - there is less concern about people snagging Chinooks than other species because Chinooks are stocked as part of a put, grow and take fishery and reproduction isn't a goal?

 

Jon

 

again, the mentality that river salmon are garbage fish has evolved over the years and it's not getting better. if they were left alone in rivers and were permitted to reproduce, would that not eliminate the need to stock them in the first place? i often wonder what the salmon and trout fisheries would be like across ontario if spawning fish were completely off limits.

 

 

isn't it odd that the species who are specifically targeted during their spawning migrations are the main ones who need stocking to keep fish able populations?

[misfish]

isn't it odd that the species who are specifically targeted during their spawning migrations are the main ones who need stocking to keep fish able populations?

 

Wonder what would happen,if they closed the rivers (all rivers) Sept 1st,til Dec 31st.. Would natural reproduction be there??????

 

I say yes,and it would be great to see. But then again,you would still have those that feel the need to break the law.

[BillM]

I wanna see someone strip 50-75 boots in a single sitting, lol. Where do some of you guys come up with these figures?

[bowshep]

"natural reproduction"

 

Not so much for the Salmon but the Rainbow and Brown Trouts would have a better chance... yet to make it baby making factory alot has to be done to the waterway and the head waters to keep them fed. More plants above and below the surface and proper repairs to the marsh lands. Something to stop the water from overheating,controled run off from storm sewers, the reduction of salt used near the water ways and a reduction in chemical useage near waterways.

 

Distroying things is cheeper than fixing them...

 

Ken

[chessy]

60 to 70 percent of the salmon in the ganny are natural... and my comment about making money is the mnr opens seasons up to promote fishing for them to make money

[Garnet]

It's just not true that every salmon is gutted for the roe and dicarded.

 

You can go to the fish cleaning station just about any time and see people clean and packaging steaks and fillets.

 

Likely more are clean and taken home.

[kemper]

 

 

 

 

if there were a complete ban on roe, those people would have no reason to strip 50-75 fish at a time because there would be no market for the roe they're taking. there would be zero point in stripping eggs if nobody was going to buy them...

 

 

Unfortunately, anglers aren't the only people that are after the illegally acquired roe.

[kemper]

I wanna see someone strip 50-75 boots in a single sitting, lol. Where do some of you guys come up with these figures?

 

Bill, honestly take a drive to the Ganny the first week in September at night.

 

It's absolutely disgusting. Literally PILES of dead carcasses in the morning.

[chessy]

 

Bill, honestly take a drive to the Ganny the first week in September at night.

 

It's absolutely disgusting. Literally PILES of dead carcasses in the morning.

Thanks kemper you are 100 percent correct