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Question about Native status and fishing in my boat


Cudz

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I was wondering a couple of things with regards to my buddy who is native. Let's say he was fishing with me in my boat.

a) Would he need a fishing license? (I think not)

B) What would his catch limits be? (same as my sport license because he is fishing with me???)

c) Would he be allowed to fish with 2 rods? (or does he have to adhere to my rules because he is with me?)

 

If anyone knows please chime in.

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Taken from http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/LetsFish/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165301.html

 

Do Aboriginal people need an Ontario resident Outdoors Card?

 

Members of Ontario Aboriginal communities having established aboriginal and treaty rights do not require an Outdoors Card or Ontario fishing licence tag to take fish for personal use within their traditional or treaty territory.

 

Personal use is defined as for food, social or ceremonial purposes.

 

Individuals should be prepared to provide identification showing their community membership.

 

Members of Aboriginal communities fishing outside of their traditional or treaty areas must have a valid Outdoors Card and fishing licence tag and follow the corresponding seasons, limits and exceptions.

Edited by FishLogic
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I know he needs his status card, if he has that no fishing license needed. The other stuff I'm not certain, I don't think regulations adhere to Natives. I think you would be taking your chances if you had extra rods and extra fish in your boat but no definitive proof that it was just your buddy using/catching them and not you.

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If they are outside their "area" then yes they need a card.

I'm a status Indian as well, and have had to have a card my whole life.

Plus... it supports our industry.

 

 

Edit - typo

Edited by Stoty
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He has his license anyway, I was just wondering the legalities. How big are these "traditional or treaty areas"? I wonder how far his spans. I will have to ask him.

 

I would guess that he would have to live on a reservation to qualify. Hopefully he respects OUR resources enough to not keep everything on the end of his line, just because he might legally be allowed to....

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What do you mean by " it supports our industry"?

 

 

Ha ha---it's a comspiracy I say---Stoty is supportin those Native underground fish sales----NOT

 

Stoty can correct me here if I'm wrong----pretty sure he means our entire sport fishin industry---by buyin a licence like we all do

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As to the OP. I do fish from time to time with friends that are covered under Treaty 3 and they each have explained to me that when they fish with a non treaty person (such as myself), they are obligated to follow the rules regulations that a non treaty person has to follow, with the exception that they are not required to hold a license. As far as the comment of "I would guess that he would have to live on a reservation to qualify." has no bearing on being status. A great proportion of status 1st nations people live off reserve. The reserve nearest me has over 3000 band members but only about 10% of the members live on the reserve.

Edited by Old Man
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You are sadly mistaken Old man.

I am sure that you do not fish with natives.

 

Well I'm amazed that you know who I fish with. I live 1 km away from a reserve and spend quite a bit of time with friends from the reserve. All I said in my 1st post is to repeat what I've been told by them. My neighbor 2 doors over is also status and we ice fish ever year together. So I guess all my 1st nation friends are lying to me :sarcasm:

Edited by Old Man
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If this is goes down the "US" and the "THEM" path it will be locked.

 

Thanks

 

Art

 

Did you get a new crystal ball Art or exercising your faith in the "norm" as of late :lol:

It is an interesting topic...i have fished beside Saugeen band members thousands of times where Everyone seems to comply to the regulations set forth by MNR but when it comes to distances downstream from a Dam those rules dont seem to apply...Im now curious enough to enquire the next opportunity that presents itself...Can it be possible each Band has different rules that were negotiated in the different Treaties of certain areas :dunno:

This could be a very interesting thread if it can stay civil

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Did you get a new crystal ball Art or exercising your faith in the "norm" as of late :lol:

It is an interesting topic...i have fished beside Saugeen band members thousands of times where Everyone seems to comply to the regulations set forth by MNR but when it comes to distances downstream from a Dam those rules dont seem to apply...Im now curious enough to enquire the next opportunity that presents itself...Can it be possible each Band has different rules that were negotiated in the different Treaties of certain areas :dunno:

This could be a very interesting thread if it can stay civil

 

There is 11 different treaties that were signed from 1871 to 1921 in different areas covering different bands and also numerous bands in some areas of Canada that are non treaty, and although I'm not sure, I would guess that there maybe some variation in the rules. It would be interesting know more.

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Well, lets try this another way...in order to try and answer the OP's question without again enduring the wrath of Art, but in my area, the upper Ottawa Valley, neither catch limits, possession limits nor size limits can be enforced anywhere against those claiming to have a status card.

 

 

This is from the OPP and the MNR who jointly checked my boat opening morning this year and last year on the Ottawa River. 'Nuff said.

Edited by Spanky
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Well I'm amazed that you know who I fish with. I live 1 km away from a reserve and spend quite a bit of time with friends from the reserve. All I said in my 1st post is to repeat what I've been told by them. My neighbor 2 doors over is also status and we ice fish ever year together. So I guess all my 1st nation friends are lying to me :sarcasm:

 

Guessing will not help here.

Knowing our own rights as well as other individuals is something each of us should understand. Most do not.

As long as they are in their Territorial boundaries, they can practice their rights. I have friends as well and they to follow our rules with the very odd exception. As long as you do not practice their rights with them, everything is good.

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Natives have the rights to catch and possess fish for personal consumption, or ceremonial purposes, within there treaty areas, as stated in the regs, it is within there constitution, much like fishing and hunting is our National Heritage.

 

What Spanky said is definately true, where Natives holding a valid status card will be left alone, as CO's have laid charges in the past only to have them tossed out of court, and wasting taxpayers money and the CO's time to lay charges.

 

This was actually taken to the top court, the Supreme Court of Canada, by a charged Status Native, and was thrown out, as I know the 2 retired CO's who spent a considerable amount of time to lay the charges.

 

I am a Native holding Status as well, and like Stoty, i have my fishing license, not because i think for one minute that it will go back into the resourse though.

 

Migweetch

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Natives have the rights to catch and possess fish for personal consumption, or ceremonial purposes, within there treaty areas, as stated in the regs, it is within there constitution, much like fishing and hunting is our National Heritage.

 

What Spanky said is definately true, where Natives holding a valid status card will be left alone, as CO's have laid charges in the past only to have them tossed out of court, and wasting taxpayers money and the CO's time to lay charges.

 

This was actually taken to the top court, the Supreme Court of Canada, by a charged Status Native, and was thrown out, as I know the 2 retired CO's who spent a considerable amount of time to lay the charges.

 

I am a Native holding Status as well, and like Stoty, i have my fishing license, not because i think for one minute that it will go back into the resourse though.

 

Migweetch

 

I guess the OP's question is, how is it handled when a status and non status person are fishing together in the same boat? How does the CO handle the situation if there's over a non status limit in the boat, or slot size, number rods etc?

 

I've never been checked while fishing with status friends, but then again, they've always followed the same rules I do when fishing with me so it's never mattered.

Edited by Old Man
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I fish with a buddy who has native status. This is the 1st year he has not purchased a fishing licence. He was concerned that the C.O.s may challenge his status (carries his card with him) if he also purchaese a licence.

 

He does not exceed the posession limits but may keep a slot sized walleye. He hasn't yet, but it would be his choice if we had a low #s day and he caught a slot sized fish.

 

 

 

When fishing together I keep my fish in one livewell and his in the other. That way I know I am safe.

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I worked at a first Nations High School in Sioux Lookout. I was fishing with 4 Status students when approached by 2 Cos. # of the kids were not old enough to need a license but one kid was 19. The COs were going to charge him because he was from another Treaty area and would have needed a letter from the Chief of the Treaty area we were in stating he ( it was Chief Clifford Bull Of Lac Seul 1st Nation they said would need to have given permission) had permission to fish there.

 

He said the only exception would be, is if the kid had direct relatives who lived in the treaty area we were fishing that would exempt him. The kid said he had a mother from Sioux Lookout and in his next breath as the CO said " you're ok then" and started to put his note p[ad and tickets away, the kid says...."but she died"...if it was not so sad it was pure comedy!

 

The Cos confewred for a few moments, said to me they were not going to book him because it would never hold up in court even though they were right, checked my license, and rode off on their snowmachines.

 

The moral of this story is that apparently...even if you are status, if you are fishing in another Treaty Area you need WRITTEN permission with you from the Chief of the Treaty area you are in.

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Hey Simon---did it kinda look like this?

 

Cause I painted this after years of fishin across from your house

 

Called it "Wonder" Plus it cools me off on a hot day

 

 

 

That bares an uncanny resemblance to one on my favorite spots on a little Lake Trout lake near me. Nice painting.:good:

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