$ 495+ tax!

[aplumma]

Decided not to contribute to the locking of this thread.

 

Art

Edited May 29, 2010 by aplumma

[vinnimon]

You are right, neither job is hard. Having a torque wrench and knowing how to use it properly when you have changed the head gasket takes a little more knowledge and why bother to see if the head is warped or not, stick a new head gasket in it and have at it.

 

Or you can just use a ratchet and socket and tighten them to 230"lbs (or what ever that feels like; snug and what the heck a quarter turn more just for good luck)Knowing the proper bolt tightening pattern; that you should be able to find in the manual.

 

Cleaning the gunk out of the carb is easy, knowing what you are looking at when you have the carb apart and checking for a leaking needle valve or seats; float bowl leaks(I guess I shouldn't have spent over $1000.00 on carb tools so I can test and adjust them properly)making sure you put everything back properly and adjusting the jets, what the heck, just tighten them up and back them out a couple of turns and see what happens, who needs a tachometer to tune it properly, adjust until it sounds right!

 

I'm not trying to make it sound like rocket science but some of the most expensive repairs I have ever had to do were because someone thought "it's just a simple fix, I can do it myself and save some money"!

 

Those are the ones where I have to go back to square one and try to figure out what they did to it (and most of the time they won't admit to doing anything) but the needle valve seat just jumped out and turned it self upside down and fell right back into place. (Now that is the first thing I would look for if there was a carb problem Then they get upset because it took me 4 hours to do a job that I could have done in 2 if they hadn't played with it first.

 

I don't know if you realize it but a marine mechanic has to serve 5000 hours of apprenticeship, (and his first 2000-3000 were probably at slightly above minimum wage) go to school for 24 weeks spaced over 3 years and he can't have a mark on any test below 70% and then write a test for his license, a 120 questions on everything from electronics, to pnumatics, to gear ratios and then some. again, the minimum pass is 70%.

 

By then he probably has a bare minimum of $7000.00 (and most have a lot more than that) invested in tools.

 

Oh what the heck for those that want to, good luck on fixing it yourself! The next repair might be a lot more than $500.00.

 

I'm going fishing!

Im totaly with you,Ive spent numerous hrs trying to fix someones goof ups on many ocassions.Cost them more for sure.

As for education,I had to put in 9000hrs over a 3 yr span before I could write for the COQ.From what I remember it was 200 plus questions, and the money I shelled out,too much!!! OH! and a 70% min that gets you an interprovincial as well.FYI Im a truck and coach Tech.For one that thinks its a joke,absolutely not!

Fix it youself esp trying to save a buck or two,youll see!Mind you,ive met tons of people without tickets that really know they way around engines and what nots.

Edited May 29, 2010 by vinnimon

[canadadude]

My brother is a liscenced marine mechanic and yes he severed his apprenticeship and he has $40,000 worth of tools( he's a tool junkie)He's been doing his job for 20yrs,but he dosn't rip off the public.$500 is way to much for the amount of work done here. Any decent mechanic could have done the work in 2.5 hrs shop time at $90.00 an hour. Changing the head gasket is realativly easy and cleaning the carburator is no big deal on these motors. For $500 you could have bolted on a brand new carb, a brand new head and a new gasket and pulling the fly weel off these motors is easy, I don't understand another $400 and change. I think your mechanic has hooked himself a live one

[BUSTER]

Same here Class A mechanic, 9000hrs for apprenticeship,3 yrs school, crap pay for way too long....Went to heavy equipment for 3 more years then got out, I tinker at home and thats it..

 

 

495.00 seems fair to me, and I think it would take me more than 4hours...........

Does that carb have a gasket? Is the guy going to rebuild carb with kit? or just clean it up?

 

One more thing, just think if you broke a bolt by tring to save some money doing it yourself, sometimes its just better to send it in to a pro and get R done. altho there is alot of guys doing it on the side for less $, however good luck getting your money back if it doesn't work in properly in 2 mths from now.

 

Good luck

[muskymatt]

It's all relative...you'll be happy when your motor is reliable and purrs like a kitten on the water.

Be preventative and also prepared to spend 15% of the boats worth on maintenance annually(at least).

 

You wanna play ....you gotta pay!

[vinnimon]

Same here Class A mechanic, 9000hrs for apprenticeship,3 yrs school, crap pay for way too long....Went to heavy equipment for 3 more years then got out, I tinker at home and thats it..

 

 

495.00 seems fair to me, and I think it would take me more than 4hours...........

Does that carb have a gasket? Is the guy going to rebuild carb with kit? or just clean it up?

 

One more thing, just think if you broke a bolt by tring to save some money doing it yourself, sometimes its just better to send it in to a pro and get R done. altho there is alot of guys doing it on the side for less $, however good luck getting your money back if it doesn't work in properly in 2 mths from now.

 

Good luck

LOL,my neihbour is in that same predicament,2 broken watepump bolts in his ford p/u.

[John Bacon]

If you are interested in learning... I took a course on outboard motor repairs back in the 90's. In addition to learing about the motors you can also bring your motor in an work on it there; this is a great benefit because buying special tools for a repair costs more than taking it to a mechanic.

[T Fisher]

A headgasket is no big deal just make sure you torq to specs. rebulding a carb is no big deal they are gummed with varnish from old gas. pull the bowls off spray them with a good qulity carb cleaner spraying librily in and out of the carbs use air to blow dry. Fill the tank with SHELL SUPER YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.

Edited May 29, 2010 by T Fisher

[pikehunter]

Typical mechanics response.

 

What a joke.

 

Nice reply to Cliff! What a nice respectful way to say thank you to someones professional opinion! You gave a real response. I and many others here will all agree that Cliff deserves an apology.

 

You sure you aren't the same guy I had to put in his place at work this afternoon?

 

As for the motor repair, get a 2nd opinion from another shop if it makes you feel better. Let a pro fix it and the peace of mind out on a deserted lake outrunning a thunderstorm will pay dividends.

[Daplumma]

Fuel starts to degrade within 30 days since they started adding ethanol to it.

 

 

Exellent point Cliff,plays hell on the lawn equipment,chainsaws and motorcycles around here.Seafoam,correct me if I am wrong has some stabilizing virtues.We buy it by the 1\2 gallon here.

Joe

Edited May 29, 2010 by Daplumma

[walleyemen]

BOAT=BREAK OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND!!!!!! You got to pay to play, further more the mechanic doesn't set the rate the shop or business does, had you spoke with the mechanic he most probally would have done this cheaper on the side for you, and if in fact he had not checked over your motor and found that the stater was shot you would have or could be stuck out on the water( can't tell i'm a mechanic eh!)Most people see a (quote) and loose there minds, 1 you didn't have to get it fixed there, 2 you could have gotten a second opinon, don't knock the mechanic, most of these guyz are on a flat rate, if the book says 4 hours and he breaks a bolt or has a problem then he himself swallows the loss, i'd like to see you guyz time those carbs,I spent $500 on a old rude 6 h.p kicker, why? it's a great motor, could i have done it myself , possibly, but i'm sure it wouldn't have been right, i'm a truck and coach/ heavy equipment mechanic and i couldn,t fix a small gas engine to save my life, not my field or expertise, bottom line is you got it fixed and i'm sure you'll have many hours of worry free boating as well as some piece of mind knowing it had got done right!

[Jonny]

An outboard motor is a piece of recreational equipment. There's always a premium on fixing those.

 

If you treat your equipment well, and with a bit of luck, you can run an outboard for decades without a major repair. If you buy a used outboard, you're paying a lot less, but you're also taking a chance on how well the motor was treated by the previous owner. A lot of expensive things can eventually go wrong without proper maintenance and storage.

 

Old motors aren't any cheaper to fix than newer ones. What the motor is worth in good running condition has no bearing on what it costs to fix it when something goes wrong.

 

The best insurance policy for an old motor? A 2 or 3 HP kicker to get you back to the dock or the landing.

 

I've gone through the financial hit of fixing an old motor. It's part of the price of admission, I figure.

[siwash]

who would of thought a 40 year old motor would require expensive repairs?

 

 

It's 28 years old!

[siwash]

My brother is a liscenced marine mechanic and yes he severed his apprenticeship and he has $40,000 worth of tools( he's a tool junkie)He's been doing his job for 20yrs,but he dosn't rip off the public.$500 is way to much for the amount of work done here. Any decent mechanic could have done the work in 2.5 hrs shop time at $90.00 an hour. Changing the head gasket is realativly easy and cleaning the carburator is no big deal on these motors. For $500 you could have bolted on a brand new carb, a brand new head and a new gasket and pulling the fly weel off these motors is easy, I don't understand another $400 and change. I think your mechanic has hooked himself a live one

 

 

That makes me feel a whole lot better! I don't know what to say at this point.. I haven't picked it up yet. Maybe I should try to get the price down.. i think it's too late though!

[siwash]

If you are interested in learning... I took a course on outboard motor repairs back in the 90's. In addition to learing about the motors you can also bring your motor in an work on it there; this is a great benefit because buying special tools for a repair costs more than taking it to a mechanic.

 

 

Where did you take the course?

 

thanks

[siwash]

BOAT=BREAK OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND!!!!!! You got to pay to play, further more the mechanic doesn't set the rate the shop or business does, had you spoke with the mechanic he most probally would have done this cheaper on the side for you, and if in fact he had not checked over your motor and found that the stater was shot you would have or could be stuck out on the water( can't tell i'm a mechanic eh!)Most people see a (quote) and loose there minds, 1 you didn't have to get it fixed there, 2 you could have gotten a second opinon, don't knock the mechanic, most of these guyz are on a flat rate, if the book says 4 hours and he breaks a bolt or has a problem then he himself swallows the loss, i'd like to see you guyz time those carbs,I spent $500 on a old rude 6 h.p kicker, why? it's a great motor, could i have done it myself , possibly, but i'm sure it wouldn't have been right, i'm a truck and coach/ heavy equipment mechanic and i couldn,t fix a small gas engine to save my life, not my field or expertise, bottom line is you got it fixed and i'm sure you'll have many hours of worry free boating as well as some piece of mind knowing it had got done right!

 

 

I am not knocking the mechanic... I realize he's probably making pittance... It's the owner of the business that is "ripping" me off...

[siwash]

An outboard motor is a piece of recreational equipment. There's always a premium on fixing those.

 

If you treat your equipment well, and with a bit of luck, you can run an outboard for decades without a major repair. If you buy a used outboard, you're paying a lot less, but you're also taking a chance on how well the motor was treated by the previous owner. A lot of expensive things can eventually go wrong without proper maintenance and storage.

 

Old motors aren't any cheaper to fix than newer ones. What the motor is worth in good running condition has no bearing on what it costs to fix it when something goes wrong.

 

The best insurance policy for an old motor? A 2 or 3 HP kicker to get you back to the dock or the landing.

 

I've gone through the financial hit of fixing an old motor. It's part of the price of admission, I figure.

 

 

well said!

[Big Cliff]

Exellent point Cliff,plays hell on the lawn equipment,chainsaws and motorcycles around here.Seafoam,correct me if I am wrong has some stabilizing virtues.We buy it by the 1\2 gallon here.

Joe

 

You are absolutly right Joe, it is an amazing product. The only time I ever had a problem with it was on an older engine, the only thing sealing the rings was a carbon build up. Cleaned out the carbon, lost some compression LOL. I buy it by the case and always use it in my shop but you should follow the Mfg. instructions. Here is a link that will tell you how, why, and where to use it.

Seafoam

[siwash]

You are absolutly right Joe, it is an amazing product. The only time I ever had a problem with it was on an older engine, the only thing sealing the rings was a carbon build up. Cleaned out the carbon, lost some compression LOL. I buy it by the case and always use it in my shop but you should follow the Mfg. instructions. Here is a link that will tell you how, why, and where to use it.

Seafoam

 

 

Cliff, should I get it a Cdn Tire?

 

 

In your opinion, what "preventitive" measure can I take (other than the Seaform). For example, should I use synthetic oil, premium gas, etc...

 

Also, I have changed the lower unit oil, the plugs and usually the fuel filter , too, every year on previously owned motors. These are the only things I have done without the assistance of a mechanic!

 

Anything else?

 

Thanks!!

[siwash]

Just looked at Cliff's Seafoam link. Wow, looks great! Maybe I should invest in the stuff? I want to take some preventative measures.

 

Question is which product(s) to go with? There a re several. The first one on the site looks like the gas additive.

 

Any thoughts?

[Big Cliff]

Cliff, should I get it a Cdn Tire?

 

 

In your opinion, what "preventitive" measure can I take (other than the Seaform). For example, should I use synthetic oil, premium gas, etc...

 

Also, I have changed the lower unit oil, the plugs and usually the fuel filter , too, every year on previously owned motors. These are the only things I have done without the assistance of a mechanic!

 

Anything else?

 

Thanks!!

 

It sounds like you are doing most of the right things!

 

I'm not sure if CTC has it, I buy it at NAPA Auto parts. Use the fuel treatment and follow their recomendations. You will eliminate most fuel related problems. I do believe in using a good quality oil and synthetics do have their virtues but as long as you make sure what you are using is good quality you should be fine especially in a two stroke. In a 4 stroke after the first oil change, I do believe there is some advantage to using a synthetic. Not that you have to! Premium gas should only be used in engines that are desigined to run on premium gas.

 

I wish you were closer to me, I work out of my garage every Saturday up until about noon and would be happy to try to help you learn the proper way to do some of the things. Mind you, I'd make you get your hands dirty LOL. Unfortunatly I am so back logged right now that I am about 2 months behind but if you want to come and help out on Saturday mornings I'll teach you how to do whatever I happen to be working on that day.

 

Oh, and BTW, (Just to clarify things) I have never charged an OFNr a cent for labour on anything I have done for them and I'm sure not trying to drum up extra business, I have way more than I can handle now. Saddly, I have had to turn some work away just because I am so back logged and I am not going to work 7 days a week anymore.

 

So if you want to learn some hands on small engine stuff, Saturday mornings, 8:00 am until noon, bring work clothing and a Timmies, milk no sugar.

 

313 Snug Harbour Rd.

Lindsay

[lew]

Interesting thread !!

 

Cliff, I always use Stabil regularily in all my gas engines and everything runs well, and in my outboard (150 Yamaha 4 stroke)I use Marine Stabil.

 

Should I also use Seafoam in ADDITION to the Stabil in all my engines......lawnmowers, snowblower, generators etc ??

 

Life used to be so simple before Ethanol

Edited May 29, 2010 by lew

[ecmilley]

Lew opinions vary, but I won't mix products, I'll use stabil for longer term storage, and seafoam in day to day running as it has water removing, and cleaning propertys as well as stabilizing, but changing it up certainly can't hurt.

in my 4-stroke sled (yammy) i use the yamaha fuel stablizer and conditioner so far 4 years no problems and it's cheap at 5 bucks a bottle

[BillM]

We obviously have a different sense of humour because I didn't find his response very funny. In fact, part of the problems with trades these days is the time and monetary investment for education. Many of today's youth evaluate the cost of education and time investment to achieve a goal and move on to unskilled labour just to maintain a SUBstandard living.

So what do you do for a living?

 

IT Management, but I'm not to sure how that matters in this conversation.

 

Anything else you'd like to know? Perhaps the amounts in a few of the boxes on my T4 slip?

 

My point is this..

 

Swapping out a headgasket isn't complicated, either is cleaning a carburetor. If you have a bit of mechanic ability and some patience you could easily tackle it. Now, what I do have a problem with is someone coming on here and trying to 'scare' the poor guy into taking it in somewhere to get replaced. Perhaps I misunderstood Cliffs reply, but I don't think so. I guess I've pissed off a lot of VW and GMC mechanics by doing all my own work on my car or truck. I don't remember taking that $7000 course or buying $10,000 worth of tools to do it either...

 

Food for thought.

[lew]

I agree about mixing different products Earnie, but we read so many different opinions about stabilizers lately it's hard to sort thru them all.

 

I've got a gas/water seperator installed in my boat with a 10 micron filter that'll be changed every season so hopefully that, along with the fuel treatments will keep things purring for many years to come.

 

Yup, times & technology are constantly changing but I don't know if that's always a good thing.

Edited May 29, 2010 by lew