Clarification of the law???

[brkygetr]

I have a question regarding transporting game?

Now I try my best to know the laws of the bush and greatly respect them, they are there for a reason!

But....there is this grey area that I have not been able to get clarification on....

I have posted this same question to the MNR but have got no reponse so here it is....

Anybody help me out or have any thoughts?????

 

 

I would like some clarification on the law.

First off I know this question comes up every year but I have some specifics.

As i understand it there is no problem hunting with a full status buddy as long as I do not activly participate in his hunt, or his in mine. If he shoots something on his own accord then there is no problem with me helping him gut, drag-out, skin, ect....'After the kill'.

Now my question is if we are in my truck , with me driving, and we have to take the game (moose, deer) back out than am I in contradiction of the law as I am transporting an untagged animal???? Or is it ok as long as he is with me and it is legitamely his?????

Secondly if the fact that I am transporting the animal is contradictory then what happens if he drives out??? Then technically I am not transporting, I am just a passenger in my truck, with my buddy, who happens to have his moose/deer in the back??????

 

I understand it is a little bit of a grey area but I am just expressing due diligence as I am not one to get myself in crap for something that I do not need to. Worse comes to worse we can always drive back to town to get his truck. That being said sometimes circumstances do not allow for that as we all know ie: darkness, weather, distance, proximity to wolves, ect.

 

Anyways thanks for your help.

 

Dale

[Guest gbfisher]

I'd phone and ask. I had to one day as my buddy's were out fishing in my boat. I didn't want to be an arse by saying they had to abide by my rules.... So I called an office and asked about what their rights were being in my boat. I was told that they did not have to go by my rules at all but they could harvest what they wanted. Still made me a little leery so I took the name of the officer who told me that info. A phone call before you go wouldnt hurt. They will call you back quick enough once they hear about the situation you are about to help with......

[kickingfrog]

That's the type of question that you can not get answered (at least not properly) here. You will have try harder with the MNR, and even then they may not want to give you an answer, because of the "greyness" of it. Be prepared to get "bounced around" a bit on the phone.

 

Good luck.

[brkygetr]

That's the type of question that you can not get answered (at least not properly) here. You will have try harder with the MNR, and even then they may not want to give you an answer, because of the "greyness" of it. Be prepared to get "bounced around" a bit on the phone.

I have stopped by the local office but unfortunaetly when I am done work most of the 'boys in green' are heading out for the evening rounds and the office itself is closed...its a busy time of year in our neck of the woods. And I really do want the recourse of a face to face conversation.

Not looking for a legal answer just an opinion on the subject....unless a C.O. wishes to anonymously PM me.

[basketclam]

If you look a little deeper, you'll find legislation that specifically prohibits the transportation of ILLEGALLY killed wildlife. It's a long and complicated process when it comes to determining if wildlife killed by a native is legal or not and I won't pretend that I am in a position to begin an intelligent discussion on the topic. Let's presume that in your case it legally harvested. In that case, the "transportation" of the wildlife is not likely the issue. Based on your description, it sounds as if you're actively taking part in the harvest, and that's a grey area beyond the scope of most experts, let alone most lay people. I'm afraid that you'll have to keep asking questions up the chain of command in order to get a satisfactory answer.

[brkygetr]

ILLEGALLY killed wildlife.

determining if wildlife killed by a native is legal or not

Anything harvested is legal and under rights of the/a treaty area. And no I will not participate in his hunt, we may drive to the same cut tougether but I will go one way (watch a hill, walk a ridge) and he will go another, odds are we won't see each other for 2-3 hours untill we are back at the truck...unless...one of us hears a shot, then, as per standard we meet back at the truck to figure out what happened.

Regardless we still need to get the game home in MY truck????

Edited October 21, 2009 by brkygetr

[ADB]

Is your friend a licenced driver? Why can't he just drive your truck?

 

I don't think a warden would check the registration of the truck unless the animal was taken illegally, which you stated would not be the case.

Edited October 21, 2009 by ADB

[n8tivebigguy]

Where does the hunt take place? not looking for a specific location where you hunt but just is it on or off their treaty area to hunt?

Edited October 21, 2009 by fish lips

[PAZE]

Now my question is if we are in my truck , with me driving, and we have to take the game (moose, deer) back out than am I in contradiction of the law as I am transporting an untagged animal???? Or is it ok as long as he is with me and it is legitamely his?????

 

This would be the exact same thing if the animal was tagged and the MNR pulled you over, as long as hes present when you get pulled over and he has his statis card with him your fine. You would be shocked how quick a MNR or even a OPP backs down to natives once the status card is pulled out. A couple a freinds of mine are native and this has happend to me when Im with them.

 

Paul

[Jay T]

First of all, from what I gather you are not with your friend while he is hunting. If you go your seperate way you could be charged with pushing the game to him, wich you are participating in the hunt. If you are to go out with him you should be with him, that way there is no confusion if you come accross a CO. As far as transporting a tagged animal with the person that shot it, is totally leagal, as long as the tag has been put on it before it has been moved from where it was found.

[Dara]

Further to my post a few days ago where the game warden had the OPP take the native to jail for outsanding warrants and was left to deal with a dead moose himself. The non native guy hunting with the native was required to help get the moose out of the bush and transport it home for the native.

 

Wait, I deleted that post.

 

OK, a guy hunting with a native, native shoots a moose, see's game warden, shows ID, warden runs him on puter and calls OPP due to outstanding warrants for arrest. Non native hunting buddy and CO's left to deal with moose in bush. They spent 8 hours getting the damned thing out and home for the native so as not to let meat spoil.

 

You can haul the moose for your buddy

[jedimaster]

The law ays that your not allowed to hunt with or participate in the hunt. You need to get written clarification of when the hunt starts and when it ends. What if your just getting out of the truck walking into the bush with your buddy with all your hunting gear. Say you guys walk 15 minutes with eachother than seperate. for the 15 minutes your with eachother you could be construde as hunting with eachother.

 

Sounds like a very dicey situation let alone tranporting it.

[John the Fisherman]

My uncle (non- status)has transported moose for his son (status) to the butchers on more than one occasion over the years. My uncle is retired, so he has plenty of time. My uncle was instructed to have a note from his son with the name: address: phone #: status card#, and a brief description of the hunt as to when and where the moose was killed within our Traditional Territory.

When my uncle gets to the butcher, he gives this note to the butcher. For pretty much the same reason. If a C.O drops by to see the butcher then the butcher has his proof.

 

An aboriginals "Treaty Area" is not the immediate area surrounding a local First Nation, it is much larger than that. The treaty areas within the Province are the: Robinson-Huron, Robinson-Superior, Williams, Upper Canada, #3, #5, and #9. Each aboriginal person is adhered to one treaty area. For eg. I am associated with Robinson-Huron. So, for me to hunt or fish I have to be inside my Treaty Area, but if I want to hunt or fish anywhere outside my First Nations "Traditional Territory" I will need to have written permission from the First Nation around whos area I may be near. I can be charged without this written permission by a C.O.

I think that the kill cannot leave the "Treaty Area" without a note from the local First Nation as well. For example Kenora area to Timmins. That would be crossing borders from # 3 to #9 through Robinson-Superior. I seem to recall a status friend having his game confiscated because he had no note to transport across Treaty Borders. He had previous permission to hunt where he did get his kill, but he did not get a letter to take his game home. He was not charged with illegal transport, but now he makes sure he has it stated in the letter that he is permitted to take game home after the hunt.

This is helpful to First Nations because it gives them an idea of what is harvested within their Traditional Territory, and these numbers can be added and compared with provincial numbers to assist in population estimates.

 

JTF

[Roy]

As i understand it there is no problem hunting with a full status buddy as long as I do not activly participate in his hunt, or his in mine. If he shoots something on his own accord then there is no problem with me helping him gut, drag-out, skin, ect....'After the kill'.

Dale

 

I haven't hunted in years. I no longer know which laws are in place nor does it matter to me unless I want to get back to hunting. However, from your above quote, I would say that you were participating in the hunt. Why put yourself in that position? Why would you even want to have a CO with all the best intentions, who knows neither you nor your bud make a judgment call on your intentions? I don't understand this.

[brkygetr]

Just talked to a C.O.....there is no problem with me transporting the game as long as my buddy is with me in the truck.

Clarified!

[Roy]

Good, as long as all the officers are on the same wavelength.

[Dara]

Just talked to a C.O.....there is no problem with me transporting the game as long as my buddy is with me in the truck.

Clarified!

 

 

or you have a note from your mom

[jedimaster]

Cleared with that particular CO. I would be very leary. but JMHO. I have often called many CO's and asked the same question and many gave very different answers. Remember the whole issue a few years back about putting a reg number on the portable ice huts? Some said yes some said no, some said they have no idea.

The conservation laws are specifically vague to make most everything a judgement call for the CO, then it gets sorted out in court. Don't forget if you get a CO in a bad mood, he is gonna run you through every loop hole in the book, and check every little thing.

Make sure you got your ducks in a row.

It doesn't seem worth the hastle to me.

Edited October 21, 2009 by jedimaster

[Terry]

calling them means nothing

 

I wanted to know about portable huts needing a license on simcoe and was told yes 4 other people were told no while 2 others were told yes

so I called 3 more the got 2 different answers....if they don't know the law or interpret it the same way how can we

 

so I emailed them and when I got the answers I printed off the answer I wanted

it would be hard for them to charge me when I have it in writing from them

Edited October 21, 2009 by Terry

[dave524]

Just talked to a C.O.....there is no problem with me transporting the game as long as my buddy is with me in the truck.

Clarified!

 

I don't think that is the biggest problem here, that has been clarified. What would bother me if I was a C.O., would be that you participated some way in the hunt, especially since you are using the same vehicle. Say enroute to the area, you spot a cow in a beaver pond meadow, you got a bull tag so he shoots it after getting out of the vehicle, were you a participant?? Its just not a situation I would want to be in personally, too much open to interpretation of what actually constitutes participation.

[Guest gbfisher]

That was easy. Take his name and ask him to email you so you have it in writing like Terry has said.

 

I thought that taking them fishing and having them practice their Territorial rights while with me would have been a problem too as they were in my boat, there for I was helping them. Of course like everything else about interpreting regs and issues with regs.. I was wrong. As a lot of other are too.

The simple fact that they are aboriginal and I am white and we are friends isn't a reason not to hunt and fish together. Simply that you cannot shoot an animal or fish out of season. When you take it passed that it becomes a problem.

I'd let the MNR deal with me not people who think they are correct on a fishing site......

[brkygetr]

thanks for all your responses guys but to me the point is now null...I had a face to face conversation with a CO and he told me there is "absolutley" no problem with me transporting game. That was the crutch of my question.

As per me 'hunting' with my buddy that is not the issue, when you live where I do it happens all the time, it's a fact of life. As long as I don't drive, or 'PURPOSELY' push something towards him I am not going to be engaged in his hunt.

The definition of hunting states that....(under the Fish and Wildlife Act)

Hunting is: lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed.

He can do all that on his own, just as I will.

And for those that are not sure the onus is not on a CO to prove you guilty, the onus is ON YOU to proove yourself innocent.

Hense why I needed to know, I now have recourse.

Thanks again boys and good luck in the bush.....

oh by the way in a little over a month I am gonna be standing on the ice, with my rifle beside me (assuming I still have a tag) and ice 5lb brookies!!!!!!!

 

I love the fall.

[richyb]

So you cant party hunt with a status member like you would with any other hunting party member ?. You have to be involved in 2 different hunts ?

[brkygetr]

No you can DEFINAETLY not party hunt...big no, no.....unless your all status or non or all actually buy tags...which doesn't happen much. And yes you have to not help the other person hunt. Easiest way to solve that is to hunt ALONE.

[Jonny]

If your buddy has a truck, why not use his truck when you go hunting together?

 

Or the other solution if you do a lot of hunting together --- have your native buddy buy a license. I know it sounds dumb, but some natives do have an outdoors card and buy licenses.

 

I've been checking into this sort of thing ever since the topic came up in a thread not long ago, and I'm becoming convinced that as soon as a CO runs across a native or Metis involved in a hunt, chances are very good that he will just back off.

 

As for a native being involved in your hunt, or you in his, when you are in close proximity, how would that ever be proven in court? I can't help but believe the only way you cold get yourself in trouble is if you shoot his game.

 

I know this doesn't help from a legal standpoint. Just my 2 cents.