Have all boaters gone insane ??

[rickster]

If anybody wants to buy some lightning insurance I can set you up cheap... just pm me...lol

[misfish]

If anybody wants to buy some lightning insurance I can set you up cheap... just pm me...lol

 

Thanks for the offer Rickster,but the wife already has that on me,think they call it life insurance.LOL

[canadianguy33]

Okay guys, obviously my opinion isn't shared by most of the OFC community. If some of you think that I get a rise out of playing with hornet's nests that's not the case. It's uncomfortable being the voice of dissent. I joined this forum to get some fishing tips, swap stories and possibly find a fishing buddy. If I feel strongly about something I'll voice my opinion, just like I would out on the lake if someone was being an asshat.

 

Misfish, you asked: "Really,if you look at it,whats a few hundred bucks to be safe and have a peace of mind."

 

My whole beef with mandatory boat insurance really comes down to legislation taking away peoples right to decide for themselves what gives them piece of mind.

 

I know I probably sound like a certifiable wing-nut to some of you, but seriously, where does it end? Our government keeps making laws "for the greater good" yet they never take any laws away. I'm sure insurance companies would love (and are pushing for) mandatory insurance. They're certainly not doing business for the sake of our well being. They're running a business to make money.

 

Personally, it frightens me that so many Canadians are so quick to sacrifice their personal freedoms as well as the freedoms of others for the sake of "the greater good". On the other hand, I'm proud that Canadians are so selfless and conscience of their neighbors.

 

However, "liberty lost is rarely found". I mean, look back in history; income tax was supposed to be a temporary thing and now you go to jail if you don't pay it.

[bigfish1965]

Honestly, CanadianGuy, I do see your point. But it is more about responsibility than anything else. If you wreck or someone wrecks you, you still need money to live, pay your mortgage, feed your kids etc. It is not about the 200 guys who die each year. It is about the thousands that survive. The guys who get hurt but live, the wives and children of those who did die. Thats why wearing a PFD is not about your right, it is about your responsibility to your kids and family.

It isn't a tax, it is part of the package of owning a boat and is no different than a car.

[misfish]

However, "liberty lost is rarely found". I mean, look back in history; income tax was supposed to be a temporary thing and now you go to jail if you don't pay it.

 

Think Im next.LOL

 

I hear what you are saying canadianguy33.All joking aside and the Bull,like Rick says,it covers you and those that are effected.IMO.No matter what we think/feel about the goverments policys or laws.

 

God knows,I would hate to be the one on either end of a boating/car accident,but atleast I know I did my part.

[canadianguy33]

Rick, it wasn't that long ago that I felt the same way as you.

 

I can almost pinpoint the time when I had a change of heart a couple of years back. I'm from Peterborough, so I guess you could say I'm half 'hick' to Torontonians, but considered a 'city slicker' by country standards. lol

 

Anyways, I went up to a small town about 100km outside of Timmins to visit my cousin. I spent the week up there and we did a lot of ATVing and fishing and it was great.

 

One day, on the way to the lake one of my cousin's neighbors, an older guy that kind of looked like the Marlboro man, stopped us on the road and invited us to his place for a beer. We were both 22 or 23 years old at the time and our parents raised us both to be respectful of our elders so we obliged. I mean, we were in the middle of nowhere with no excuses.

 

When we pulled up the driveway, I was shocked when I saw two girls that weren't more than 15 years old gutting a deer. I was even more shocked when I learned that the 15 year old girl was the one who had shot the deer. At this time in my life I was vehemently against guns and hunting. I was concerned and pretty appalled that the Marlboro man would let his daughters hunt or even handle a gun. I remember telling my cousin that I thought the Marlboro man was a little nuts.

 

Over the course of the week we stopped by the Marlboro man's house nearly everyday on our way back from the lake. In that course of time I got to know his daughters, his wife and a few of his friends and I came to the conclusion that the way he lived wasn't really any better or worse then the life I lived. It was just different. I kind of envied the simplicity of his life. Him and his buddies talked a lot about fishing and hunting a lot and so did his daughters.

 

Anyways, I still hate guns; I have no use for them, I really don't like being around them and I'll probably never go hunting.

 

When the whole gun registry thing was a hot topic, I was talking to my brother (who is a hunter and gun owner) about it, I finally clued in to how poor the Marlboro man actually was, and how the costs of registering his guns would affect him. I mean, his house looked like hunting cabin. His family and him literally lived off the land.

 

Even though I doubt the marlboro man registered his guns, I find it unsettling that he would even be required.

[Gerritt]

Rick, it wasn't that long ago that I felt the same way as you.

 

I can almost pinpoint the time when I had a change of heart a couple of years back. I'm from Peterborough, so I guess you could say I'm half 'hick' to Torontonians, but considered a 'city slicker' by country standards. lol

 

Anyways, I went up to a small town about 100km outside of Timmins to visit my cousin. I spent the week up there and we did a lot of ATVing and fishing and it was great.

 

One day, on the way to the lake one of my cousin's neighbors, an older guy that kind of looked like the Marlboro man, stopped us on the road and invited us to his place for a beer. We were both 22 or 23 years old at the time and our parents raised us both to be respectful of our elders so we obliged. I mean, we were in the middle of nowhere with no excuses.

 

When we pulled up the driveway, I was shocked when I saw two girls that weren't more than 15 years old gutting a deer. I was even more shocked when I learned that the 15 year old girl was the one who had shot the deer. At this time in my life I was vehemently against guns and hunting. I was concerned and pretty appalled that the Marlboro man would let his daughters hunt or even handle a gun. I remember telling my cousin that I thought the Marlboro man was a little nuts.

 

Over the course of the week we stopped by the Marlboro man's house nearly everyday on our way back from the lake. In that course of time I got to know his daughters, his wife and a few of his friends and I came to the conclusion that the way he lived wasn't really any better or worse then the life I lived. It was just different. I kind of envied the simplicity of his life. Him and his buddies talked a lot about fishing and hunting a lot and so did his daughters.

 

Anyways, I still hate guns; I have no use for them, I really don't like being around them and I'll probably never go hunting.

 

When the whole gun registry thing was a hot topic, I was talking to my brother (who is a hunter and gun owner) about it, I finally clued in to how poor the Marlboro man actually was, and how the costs of registering his guns would affect him. I mean, his house looked like hunting cabin. His family and him literally lived off the land.

 

Even though I doubt the marlboro man registered his guns, I find it unsettling that he would even be required.

 

 

 

uh oh brother... you just opened up another can of worms.... Talking about the Gun registry!! LOL.... I understand your views.. I may not agree with them but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Please dont feel as though you are not welcome to express them here (within reason of course)... if we all always agreed it would make for a pretty boring discussion wouldnt it?

 

Funny you mention being a hick... but a city slicker @ the same time.... I am in the same boat.. I grew up outside of Hamilton on a small farm... but was close enough to know what the city was all about.. I am still country (Hate the music though) but I am city enough to have some street smarts... Feel free to debate here if you do not agree with the masses... god knows I have been in disagreement on OFC on more occasions then I care to admit too...

 

I have also had to eat some crow too...

Your time will come young jedi...your time will come...

 

Gerritt

[canadianguy33]

haha thanks gerritt, misfish and rick. I hate country music too.

 

I was starting to feel like the most hated guy on the forums (maybe I am?), so it's nice to hear that my opinions (even though they're unpopular) are welcome.

 

Btw, I'm really not as rigid as I appear to be in this thread. It just so happens that I think I have the most sensible argument on this subject. I've ate a lot of crow over the years and I'm sure I'll eat more.

[Roy]

Country music is great!

[pigeonfisher]

Country music is great!

 

So is Crow!!!

 

And I have eaten it, while listening the same country music that I said I hated!

[Fisherman]

Country music is great!

Country music is the root cause of of wind in the west...it sux,(country muzic) I'm tired of diluted beer from all the tears, dam dog keeps running off with the witch of a girlfriend and she's even cheating on him, etc, then again c-rap is no better,

[canadianguy33]

lol fisherman

 

I guess I'll eat some crow over saying country music sucks. I mean, who can resist 'Friends in Low Places'?

[markiemark70]

Allow me to chime in on this, if I may. And please feel free to flame me as the new guy. I can take it.

 

I am also against government ruling our lives, so I agree when Canadianguy says that Insurance companies and government already take alot from our lives. But i disagree on the point of a persons right to choose to be reckless when it becomes a danger to me and my family. My wife and I just had our first daughter in May, and since then my attitudes have changed alot. Whereas before idiot drivers (75% on the roads these days) were a mere annoyance, now I have an urge to run them off the road and beat the piss outta them. Not the answer I know, and I would never do it, but I get really angry when I think "who the hell are you to take that risk with my families life?"

 

IN short, I beleive that insurance may be the answer. To use your own example of the Marlboro man. What if he was out on a boat, injured or maimed me so that I could no longer support my family. As you said, he is poor, so I will never get a dime out of him. SO your answer is that my family should just suffer in the name of liberty? No thanks. I would rather take comfort in the idea that, while mine and my families lives may be forever altered, at least I can sue his ass off and his insurance company will pay.

 

If I owned a cottage on a really busy tourist lake, I would ask the other cottage owners on the lake if they would pitch in on a private security boat to go out and bust lame tourists for water infractions, at least on weekends.

 

Cheers.

[Roy]

Here's a country music starter kit fer ya'll.

[Tarzan's Jane]

Here's a country music starter kit fer ya'll.

 

 

LOL - now there's a COWBOY!! love the hat.

[canadianguy33]

Allow me to chime in on this, if I may. And please feel free to flame me as the new guy. I can take it.

 

I am also against government ruling our lives, so I agree when Canadianguy says that Insurance companies and government already take alot from our lives. But i disagree on the point of a persons right to choose to be reckless when it becomes a danger to me and my family. My wife and I just had our first daughter in May, and since then my attitudes have changed alot. Whereas before idiot drivers (75% on the roads these days) were a mere annoyance, now I have an urge to run them off the road and beat the piss outta them. Not the answer I know, and I would never do it, but I get really angry when I think "who the hell are you to take that risk with my families life?"

 

IN short, I beleive that insurance may be the answer. To use your own example of the Marlboro man. What if he was out on a boat, injured or maimed me so that I could no longer support my family. As you said, he is poor, so I will never get a dime out of him. SO your answer is that my family should just suffer in the name of liberty? No thanks. I would rather take comfort in the idea that, while mine and my families lives may be forever altered, at least I can sue his ass off and his insurance company will pay.

 

If I owned a cottage on a really busy tourist lake, I would ask the other cottage owners on the lake if they would pitch in on a private security boat to go out and bust lame tourists for water infractions, at least on weekends.

 

Cheers.

 

Firstly, it's not your god given right to receive a million bucks if god forbid someone did maim you in a boating accident. Do you not have to accept the risk of going out on the water? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? There are inherent risks in nearly everything we do. The fact remains that the risk of being killed in a boating accident is the same as being stuck by lightning.

 

I believe that every single person, rich or poor, has a natural right to use the water. Also, "Marlboro" man already pays taxes that take care of the disabled. It's not like he isn't contributing to society.

 

Secondly, by no means do I condone people being reckless on the water. I'm simply defending what I believe is their natural right, which is to be out on the water. Ultimately, it's YOUR responsibility to insure the safety of YOU and YOUR FAMILY. Nowhere in the constitution upon which this country was founded does it say that I am obligated to ensure your safety. Until someone crashes into your boat they're not impeding on your freedoms, and making laws that attempt to preempt such impediments are frivolous.

 

What ever happened to the notion of innocent until proven guilty, or that it is better to have 10 criminals roam free, than it is to have a single innocent man persecuted? These are the very fundamentals of which our judicial system and society is based. Ignoring these principles is a slap in the face to the people that came here to escape persecution.

 

Until I impede on your personal freedoms it is unconstitutional to persecute me by way of money. It's my right to be on the water. It's your choice to have kids; it's your choice to take the kids out boating. Rights win over choices every time...or at least they should.

Edited August 15, 2007 by canadianguy33

[canadianguy33]

Here's a country music starter kit fer ya'll.

 

LOL Roy. I didn't really dig the song, but at the very end of the clip he says "there's darn people fighting overseas for your freedom and you can't even whip out a twit."

[Cookslav]

Me thinks I'm not fishing the same waters ya'll are

 

I've not had any close calls, or near misses, or (luckily) even seen a close call.

But then again...I'm not on the big busy waters as often as some of you.

I'm not disagreeing the problem...I Guess I just find it hard to relate to the the topic???

 

I personally love the comfort that comes with insurance being a family man, but I definitely do not like the idea of having it mandated as law.

We have our hands cuffed enough I think.

Not many people would pay outrageous insurance rates to drive a 12'-14'-16' tinny worth $500-$1000

Nor would it be fair to force someone like me into paying a hundreds of dollars to drive small boat 5 times a year?

 

The Operators card is a joke no doubt...I totally agree

But I think I'd prefer to see mandatory classes to earn your operators license as opposed to high manditory insurance.

That way weekend warriors can boat once in a while safely knowing how to boat, and having been properly taught in a formal class setting.

Then mature responsible guys like me can head out once in a blue moon with out paying huge insurance rates we either can't afford or deem not worth it.

 

 

That’s sounds way more acceptable to me?

But man don't get me started on the gun registry....

[danbouck]

I think that we should get Dr. Phil involved in this thread now

Edited August 15, 2007 by danbouck

[Gerritt]

Firstly, it's not your god given right to receive a million bucks if god forbid someone did maim you in a boating accident. Do you not have to accept the risk of going out on the water? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? There are inherent risks in nearly everything we do. The fact remains that the risk of being killed in a boating accident is the same as being stuck by lightning.

 

I believe that every single person, rich or poor, has a natural right to use the water. Also, "Marlboro" man already pays taxes that take care of the disabled. It's not like he isn't contributing to society.

 

Secondly, by no means do I condone people being reckless on the water. I'm simply defending what I believe is their natural right, which is to be out on the water. Ultimately, it's YOUR responsibility to insure the safety of YOU and YOUR FAMILY. Nowhere in the constitution upon which this country was founded does it say that I am obligated to ensure your safety. Until someone crashes into your boat they're not impeding on your freedoms, and making laws that attempt to preempt such impediments are frivolous.

 

What ever happened to the notion of innocent until proven guilty, or that it is better to have 10 criminals roam free, than it is to have a single innocent man persecuted? These are the very fundamentals of which our judicial system and society is based. Ignoring these principles is a slap in the face to the people that came here to escape persecution.

 

Until I impede on your personal freedoms it is unconstitutional to persecute me by way of money. It's my right to be on the water. It's your choice to have kids; it's your choice to take the kids out boating. Rights win over choices every time...or at least they should.

 

 

 

 

Ok... in keeping with the spirit of this thread..... where your opinions are most definably welcome..... what Constitution are we talking about here in Canada? We dont have such a thing... Are you sure you are not American?? Our Country was not founded upon a Constitution... It was founded under British Rule.... while we are now a sovereign Nation.... if Britain goes to war.. Canadian troops could be conscripted... we are a society of Laws... where a man is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty... however as humans we have emotions and I personally think emotions come before law when it comes to major cases... have innocents been jailed?? Yes! but we have a system that allows them to appeal etc... and when they come out... they have won the Government Lotto!...

 

dont believe me?? Look at WW2...

 

or perhaps I should be Pleading the fifth?? LOL!

 

While I think we are not Canada but Canuba... I know were not American! LOL

 

 

PS.. I love Americans... even the plummas.... However... this is a debate...

 

PSS.... Shhh dont say this out loud....(charter of rights and freedoms)

 

 

Gerritt.

[Roy]

Gerritt!!!!! The Constitution Act of 1867! Hell I know...I was there with Canadave when it was first read!

[canadianguy33]

Hey Cookslav,

 

The reason you haven't seen a problem is because it doesn't really exist. Think about it buddy, 7 million boaters in Canada, nearly a million boats in Ontario alone, and only 200 people die per year. Of course my heart goes out to the families of those guys but c'mon. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

If mandatory insurance kicks in then we might as well put mandatory insurance on cheeseburgers, because the reality is that cheeseburgers kill way more people then boating accidents.

[rapala14]

insurance? i sure hope not. once again... make boating so expensive that only the rich can afford to do it? thats just Bull. haha, as for country and "c-rap" being terrible, you're just keeping the trend alive. dont forget, your parents hated your music and there parents hated there music. funny how that goes...

[rapala14]

"Think about it buddy, 7 million boaters in Canada, nearly a million boats in Ontario alone, and only 200 people die per year. Of course my heart goes out to the families of those guys but c'mon. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion."

 

 

missin a factor there though... busy boating season is only what? 4 months or so?

6 or so months for me... but i'm just that lucky

[markiemark70]

"Until I impede on your personal freedoms it is unconstitutional to persecute me by way of money. It's my right to be on the water. It's your choice to have kids; it's your choice to take the kids out boating. Rights win over choices every time...or at least they should."

 

 

Obviously you don't have children, or you could'nt possibly defend that position. You are big on rights, so here's aquestion for you:

 

What about my right to enjoy a resource, be it road or water responsibly without some irresponsible jerk who cares about nothing but himself (if that) risking my life or others. Is there no such right?

 

Using your logic, I should never leave my house, because if I walk down the street and someone mows me down on the sidewalk, I should have known that there was that risk, and take personal responsibility for that.

 

To put a twist on your comments about the legal system, I would rather that 100 irresponsible idiots be prevented from using the water, than 1 innocent, responsible person be killed for no fault of his/her own.