Snidley

Louis I get it too. The only thing I don't eat is cows and pigs out of concern for my personal health. You on the other hand eat everything, way too much of everything I believe. By the way Louis by the sound of your earlier post it looks like you and CRAA are preparing the ground for some backtracking on Atlantics. Oh well it wasn't your money. By the way if guys feel the need for it and they don't mind the mess worms, grubs, minnows, cut bait are all a-ok by me. Just not spawn since I would like to see all this conservation work pay off before the egg collectors determine that one early run means local tribs are ship shape and 2 a trip hens becomes SOP.

It was supposed to be 2 in the lake as well then at the very last minute it was changed to the current compromise of 2 in the river and 5 in the lake. Wonder if the "Derby" or OFAH or both had anything to do with it? But before stream anglers get cocky one of the other curiosities of our current regulations is that by Federal statute roe retained is in fact the same as fish retained. It's part of the fish after all, no different really than fins or fillets, and Federal law says it's all part of your limit. This came to me in an email from the head of enforcement from the MNR BUT when push comes to shove it is NEVER enforced. The reasons are twofold. One, it's a Federal Statute and the province chooses not to enforce it for the Feds, in Ontario. I suspect in other jurisdictions it's different but then roe fishing is not permitted elsewhere in Canada. The second reason conveniently dovetails with the compromise (or should that be compromising?) for fish retention as it sits in Ontario. The MNR feels it would be impossible (unwilling?)to prove whether the roe came from Ontario streams, 2 fish limit, or from the Ontario side of the lake, 5 fish limit, or from the local baitshop, or grocery store, or US streams, or US lake (the flyboys in NY, Penn., Ohio love it when Ontatio anglers come down on brown egg runs don't they). Like many things you should be carefull what you wish for since it might come back to bite you in the butt. Not that Ontario anglers need worry that a roe ban is on any sort of horizon around here. Virtually everyone is married to it and even when the MNR knows that over harvest for bait is rife particularly in the GTA they choose to bury the study rather than face the wrath of the angler community.

I love when bait anglers talk about retention. When they kill fish for roe or meat it's a harvest, when anyone outside their circle kills a fish its' a slaughter. When that drippy Brown trout makes the bad decision to get caught on your hook what is it boys, conservation minded harvest or slaughter? Trollers are just as bad especially with Salmon for "the DERBY". To them stream guys are snaggers wasting the fish for bait while the trollers purpose is noble, ie to get some cash and notoriety among their peers. Then chuck the carcass, or worse, feed it to some rubes that will eat it on the say so of "expert" fishermen that it's safe if you cut off the belly. Then there are the hoards that weigh in 15-25lb fish when the leader board was 32lb before they even left harbour that morning. I even remember seeing some "Pro" angler with a TV show suggest since Chinnooks are toxic that a great use for them would be to feed the carcasses to the bears at the zoo. Now that's conservation minded I suppose on a cosmic basis it's funny and will amount to nothing in the long run but it sure is irritating in the mean time.

Waders are a tricky subject. Simms and Patagonia make the best breathable waders for sure. They are heavy though and it's due to multiple real Gortex layers. I would be suspicious of cheap Simms because they will be imports for $200 and are likely to be similar to Cabelas and BPS house brands. Simms does offer a warranty but they must be shipped back to the USA for repair and it's not free. They are other quality imports like Bare. I saw the waders you are looking at from LeBarons and they looked very nice but they are $275. For me fishing from a kickboat the knees go in all of the cheaper waders but the Simms are too heavy in the summer heat so that defeats the purpose of comfortable dry fishing. I have had multiple White River waders and they are cheap waders that last about 3 months in my boat. I then get them replaced under warranty but you will only get one replacement per purchase from BPS in my experience. I get them for about $79-$99 on sale and look at it as a disposable product like most clothing you wear a lot. This year I saw that Cabelas.ca had the Cabelas Dry Plus breathables for $99 CDN so I bought them because of the price$99 /shipping @ $12. It seems like a good deal and I would say they are a step up 1 grade from the White Rivers from BPS. They are light, which is good for comfort but probably bad for durability so I expect that I will be replacing them under warranty mid year. I think if I was only wading streams I would be tempted to shop those Bares as they seem to be durable and you might get some long time use out of them (I probably wouldn't). Check the Bare warranty out thoroughly as Bares were my first breathables about 15 years ago and they let me down on warranty claim (2 warranty claims actually). Quality back then for their breathables was pathetic (good neoprenes however) but with the exception of Simms all the breathables at that time were a joke.

There's tons of stocking on Lake Huron and Georgian Bay. What do you think the clubs are doing with the Derby $$$. Trout are notorious wanderers in case you did not know and stocked fish repopulate all over the system including into and out of America. In addition there's been a reduced bag limit on Georgian Bay for a lot longer than on Lake O tribs. The no kill zone might also have an impact. Finally what is the population of Wasaga. Does that qualify as an urban fishery to you? Hard to fathom how anyone can't appreciate how over harvest of edible animals can outstrip the natural environment's ability to replenish the lost stocks of biomass unless enhanced/influenced by man through human migration, animal husbandry or conservation. It is essentially the story of mankind after all. Maybe you missed that decade at school. Still waiting?

I've had a pontoon kickboat for some time and I would say that a trolling motor/battery on that boat would be problematic. Too heavy by quite a bit. Trolling motors are pretty much a waste of time anyway particularly if you can attach a rodholder that would allow you to troll from spot to spot. You will find that moving around your lakes will produce as much as honey holes particularly if there are pike, trout, salmon, walleye and bass in your fishing lexicon. All those species respond well to trolling, frequently better than cast and retrieve. In the end you will also find that a)fish in small lakes quickly become conditioned to trolling motors and running them will actually shut the fish down. I find this to be the case when I fish some of the local impoundments where rental tinnies powered by trolling motors come near me. At some point it is likely that you will come to appreciate the tranquility of manpower over horsepower in any sort of truly natural environment C) I think you might also come to appreciate the stress relief that comes from gentle exercise that comes from rowing. Your fitness level will improve in about the most painless and pleasurable way possible if you allow yourself the effort of rowing around for hours on end rewarding yourself with some great angling moments.

Catch and release makes it all work. Great report and fantastic fish. Do the Bass fight well under these circumstances?

To Sinker's point over harvest will consistently trump natural reproduction. That's why, in places where natural reproduction is the management technique, minimal limits, retention of stockers only, slot sizes, roe bans, bait bans, gear restrictions and outright ban on harvest is the norm for virtually every jurisdiction where Steelhead and Salmon are found...except Ontario. Habitat is most definitely NOT the key, it is far from simple and this does apply to any species that people like to eat(or use their spawn for bait). You are correct on one point, stocking will NEVER END in an urban fishery where there's 4 million potential anglers that need homes, industry, waste disposal etc. It's a reality fundamental to an abundant fishery.

Grimace a great deal depends on what species you are concerned with. Steelhead/Rainbows have a much more diverse forage base than Salmon, that's one of the reasons they are the most widely distributed non native fish in the world. Given a depressed abundance of shad and smelts in Lake Ontario then Steelhead will eat Gobies, bugs, crustaceans I'm told they even eat fleas. Salmon will starve in the same situation. The true bottom line is that there are lots of Steelhead in Lake Ontario but distribution is not so great and the reason is obvious to most anglers (but not so much here). Ontario has entered into a Devils bargain with New York that mandates massive stocking in American tribs while Ontario will attempt "sustainable" natural reproduction with only very limited stocking (and a lot of the MNR stocking is in fact from old brood stock from a suspect original strain of rainbow. In many cases even this is not the total story as MNR stocking technique often means dumping the stockers off breakwalls and in harbours. It is a horrible waste of a shallow resource). We are now living with the results. Tons of fish in New York tribs, maybe even more abundance than is healthy, and, despite what the coffee clatch here is selling, a lot less Steelhead in our tribs to a level that makes killing any of what is available here a tragedy that anglers adamantly refuse to acknowledge. Roe angling/collection exacerbates this situation greatly.

Who said stocking had to be from brood stock. Certainly not the Americans as they also take striped eggs only. Stocking most definitely should only be from wild fish and at no time did I ever say it should be otherwise. The originating strain is important as well. The Saugeen is a better fishery today because of large scale and CONSISTENT stocking and even though it is a great fishery today if they stop stocking it will fall precipitously. Fortunately there are no plans that I am aware of to stop stocking and transferring fish at the Saugeen. Any fishery with any species other than Carp, where anglers insist on carrying off the fish they catch in large unsustainable numbers will be doomed to shortages. This is magnified with steelhead due to the fact that "traditional" roe anglers will always keep hens over bucks because they get meat and bait as opposed to meat only. I guess it makes them feel better but in a highly populated area like the GTA the skewed numbers taken will always outstrip the natural reproductive capacity of the river enhanced stream improvements not withstanding. I hope things are better at the Credit and steam improvements are no doubt a good thing but the continued insistence of anglers keeping hens will simply mean that at the end of the day there will just be more and fuller stringers as the new anglers ape the experienced ones, including the executives of a "conservation" group, that demonstrate by action that roe collection as a fishing tactic is ok. Roe collection/prioritized retention of hens is not ok in any fishery faced with shortages. Period. In addition roe use under such circumstances is only allowed in Ontario no where else that I know of would permit it.Since it appears that addiction to eggs for bait is an unchangeable tradition in this province, and the MNR has clearly decided that this is the case, then there has to be a large scale stocking effort to replace the lost breeders with replacements just like they have done down south and, to a lesser extent, on the 'Geen.

Anyone fished the Saugeen lately? Is it a fishery driven by stream improvement? No. It's driven by stocking, heavy stocking by a dedicated fishing club that by and large consider CRAA and it's methods laughable. They have worked around the MNR to find a way to re create a fishery were CRAA can't find that path. Would it be an even better fishery if roe as bait was not permitted? Yes, it would be, however just like down here anglers are trained from early on that the way to catch salmonoids is to use eggs. It is not the only way nor even the best way to catch salmonoids but it is the easy way. Sort of like lamplighting in Australia. Or shooting Turkeys in a roost. Or targeting Bass on nests. I take lots of flack from other steelheaders over this issue no doubt. It's always the same guys, roe anglers all, who essentially frame all their perspective in light of a base of fishing with the spawn of a fish they claim to want to conserve. It is absurd obviously and you don't see any other angling group even considering targeting spawning fish to get bait. I repeat, give anglers a self policing environment and you will see carnage as a result. I also suggest that any angler that thinks stocked steelhead are "dumb" or "weak" go down to the Whirlpool in April or May and see just how dumb/weak they are. Or go out to the blue zone in August and deal with the schooling steelies out there. Weak, I think not. Willing biters, yes they are that but it could hardly be considered a negative trait in a gamefish.

Craig makes a great point, as always. Ontario anglers must face reality and learn to count as a good day, a fish retention less outing. Something clearly not practiced here. It goes without saying that many of the charter guys and even more so the derby guys, take way too many fish usually with some screed about the fish dying anyway or the needs or rights to turn a fishery into a contest, for profit(for a very elite few). With that said the idea that bait anglers are not the biggest problem defies simple mathematics. There must be at least 20k stream anglers in the GTA (there's probably more if casual early season trout opener anglers are counted). If they keep 2 hens per season, or 6 per season like some chap thinks is "reasonable" then you are knocking 20 to 60k HENS out of the breeding pool on top of natural attrition. You guys are targeting the breeding females of the fish you claim to love... for bait. It is unsustainable and everyone knows it. The other pap, usually served up by CRAA is that stream improvement is a panacea answer to fisheries improvement. Well they've been at it for 20+ years so where's the improvement fellas. Bottom line the route to improvement is through large scale stocking just like what is being successfully done about 40 miles due south across Lake O or Lake Erie. Tens of thousands of fish in every stream and who cares if the headwaters are warm. Under those circumstances even bait angling can be allowed without it ruining the fishing for the other anglers. Unfortunately both the thumb twiddling of the MNR toward salmonoids and the misdirection from CRAA/OFAH we won't get large scale stocking nor will we get any semblance of enforcement so we are left with anglers self policing. Given self policing as a policy directed at the general public all I can say is God help us, we are doomed.

That video is hilarious....and true

Proudly eating contaminated fish, "needing" roe or no angling success, the lake guys are selfish , the river guys are numerous and the story remains the same year after year. It's amazing there's any fish to catch at all. The true solution is NO roe fishing, NO keeping wild fish, Salmon /Steelhead tags that limit ANNUAL catch not daily or weekly limits roundly abused by all (Federal law mandates that roe IS considered a fish but as it is a Federal Statute the lame MNR does not enforce it). These laws would put Ontario on par with BC, the place these animals come from and where these ARE the rules. Unfortunately we are left with the bait angling and cooler stuffing crowd governed by self policing, God help us.

They are definitely cover girls at this time of year. Well done.

I saw the show and the earlier one too, Reefer Madness, which was about ocean reefs and their destruction. Both were good for young kids if a little light on new information or any hint of a solution. The Caribbean has it's own alien invader and LOTS of problems from over development. You can see it coming from miles away, all that Caribbean Riviera ultimately looking about as attractive as Wasaga Beach with filthy, stinking water devoid of aquatic life. By then 20th Century robber barons will have moved on to the middle of the Pacific assuming it isn't a big plastic filled toilet bowl. The Carpagedddon film did offer up a solitary firm trying to make a living from Big Head and Silver Carp (since Buffalo Fish and Catfish are now virtually gone)but he pointed out they make literally pennies for carp.

TV Ontario has a new series on water starting tonight and one episode concerns the Asian Carp problem. Maybe they have some new solutions that we have not heard yet (like how to cook them lol) It's on at 7:30 tonight. The first episode is on at 7:00. Maybe solutions to the Asian Carp might be a bit optimistic in a half hour show.

If you like Salmon DON"T read this http://alexandramorton.typepad.com Of course it's not just the Feds but the BC government is in cahoots too. Read the whole blog in it's entirety and you will see why we a doomed.It goes way beyond environmental assessment.

NEVER NEVER NEVER stop part of the way up. You won't start up again. When I go down I tend to fish the Glen area or the mouth of the Whirlpool itself. THATS a hike when it comes to returning up the hill. A little tip from Outward Bound. When going up simply place your foot in front of you and the concentrate on straightening your leg. Repeat with the next step. Concentrate on straitening your leg not on stepping up. It seems silly but it's the acknowledged way to trec without exhausing yourself. The stair steps that are actually intact at the top of the hill do require more of a step up but I believe there's only 124 of those

The walk is not that bad if it is DRY. If it has been wet the walk can be dangerous. The steps are the very definition of bad workmanship. Great place to fish though, the current and highly oxygenated water really gives them steam. The place actually makes a mockery of the often stated opinion that New York State stockers are "weak".

Bill's Bait or Fishing World should do the replacement. Phone first.

Don Cherry is a ego driven bully and lunatic, traits which fit ice hockey perfectly. His point the other night about the Leafs not having even one Ontario guy on the team while most of the competition have several Ontario boys on their teams speaks volumes. The opposition comes into the ACC with several highly motivated players for every game, our players are motivated by $$$ only. Guess which wins out. Also, the Leafs need defense but we trade a promising stay at home defender for a kid that looks truly out of place in big league hockey. I'd say that's a management error, one among many. With all of that said I still think Carlyle is a good coach who has shown his teams can win it all....assuming the talent is there.

I fish Dunnville in my kickboat and it's ok provided that there is not a huge flow on the Grand form rain or snowmelt (should be ok this year re snowmelt)

If you turn up on any GTA tribs with a flyrod at this time of year (with the exception of part of the open water on the Credit) then most people that see you will assume you are fishing out of season rainbows using the excuse that you are targeting suckers (which usually show up later in the spring). Be ready for some abuse.

I see these comments about Fishing World and don't get it. NEVER had this happen to me, nor have I seen it happen to anyone else. And I am most definitely NOT a tournament angler. Fishing World is a very well stocked store with lots of deals and a willingness to negotiate pricing on expensive items. I also agree that Bills is a great friendly store but it does not have the selection of Fishing World. Bottom line is that if you don't ask you might not get salesmen bowing and scraping for your attention but I for one am not the least bit shy of asking for somthing that I want. With that said I also don't like salespeople following me around as I browse a store.